Little help? Struggling to get a live set up I like

jonnyguitarman

jonnyguitarman

Inspired
Had my Axe FX 2 since the beginning of August and i've really been struggling to get a set up I like that sounds and fells right.

At home I use it with a pair of M-audio monitors through my Mac; not the best monitors in the world but i'm pretty happy with them at the minute for home.

The first set up I tried initially was a Marshall 9100 power amp with a Marshall 1960 4x12 with Celestion G12T-75's. I really didn't like the sound at all, not only that but it removed all versatility from the Axe Fx, the tone match function wasn't an option (this is what really sold me on the thing in the first place and made me place the order).

I did a little research on here and decided to go for the a QSC K12 active wedge monitor. Lived with it for a few weeks and tried to tweak and tweak to get something I was after but it just wasn't doing it for me.

Looked a little more and went for the Atomic Reactor FR active cab thinking that because its what Fractal recommend, I couldn't go wrong right? Wrong. The worst choice so far, found it lacking in bottom end, really harsh especially at higher volume (which wasn't loud enough even at full tilt. Seemed distant, like the sound wasn't in the room. Really unimpressed with it.

I'm at a point now where I've thrown some considerable money at it and getting nowhere fast. I miss the feel of a "real" amp, the air a 4x12 moves but I don't want to give up the versatility that an FRFR set up gives. Has anyone got any ideas? I'm getting really frustrated!

Thanks in advance :)
 
Hi-

I'm kind of in a similar situation. Though, this is my second go-around with the Axe Fx2 and was hoping I could get further enjoyment out of an FRFR set up. I'm sure this isn't super helpful, but the first bit of advice I can offer is to be patient. It's been said many times that the sounds are in there and I'm a firm believer in that. Some find them right away and others, like me, need a lot more time.

When I found FRFR to click for me was after I'd been playing through my recently obtained Xitone cab for a week straight, hours on end. Basically, I just got 'used' to hearing my guitar through FRFR speakers. It's a totally different dimension than guitar-->amp and it took me a while to start hearing things differently and enjoy them.

You made it this far, don't give up :)
 
Thanks.

Its really difficult because i've had friends around playing through the setups and the QSC sounded amazing but as soon as I actually played through it myself, it was the feel of it that just wasn't right. Maybe I was a bit rash getting rid of the QSC because it did sound a lot better than the Atomic (which is just dreadful).

Gonna get rid of the Atomic as soon as I can then take another look at FRFR, maybe see if I can try it through some friends amps too and see where to go after that.......
 
Thats weird. I use the Atomic active wedge, and it just kills!!! Tons of bass, sparkling cleans, really mindblowing amp feel. The tweeter volume plays a big role. Ive used it live as monitor on stage then going to foh. And I use it everyday at home in my den. I think u just have to take a little time with it. And then there's the guitars, presets eq, tons of defining elements on your tone. Some are lucky maybe.
 
I'm about to switch my live setup around, too, but not because I'm unhappy with the sound.

I've had my Axe FX II since late August, and only just started using it at gigs. Late last year, I bought a pair of ZT Club amps. They're essentially the ZT Lunchbox, but with a 12'' speaker. I initially bought them because I do a good bit of work in places like the French Quarter (I live near New Orleans), and I needed something extra-portable. They are that! They're loud, as well (200 watts). When I need them for the portability, I only bring one (it's cool to have stereo, but it's kind of a luxury).

When I use them with the Fractal, I just go straight into the effects return. I haven't bothered disabling the cabs, since the ZTs don't add much cabinet coloration of their own, I suppose because the cabinet is barely bigger than the speaker.

I've only brought the Fractal to two live gigs so far, and though my biggest problems haven't been the sound, but rather, the trial-and-error of getting the patches levelled out and figuring out which models work best on stage with a band (as opposed to alone, in my music room), not to mention how to structure the patches in the "original" Ground Control pedal I've been using while waiting for the MCF-101 to become available again.

But I have noticed a disjuncture between the way it sounds through the ZTs and the way the guitar sounds in FOH. The first gig, it sounded duller and darker through the PA, so before the second gig, I re-equ'd everything, and then it was a little thin-sounding through the amps. As i said, it was hard to predict, because it sounded fine both ways at my house.

So I'm gonna go to a FRFR setup, to see whether I get more consistent results between stage and PA sound.

I'm planning on getting a Yamaha DXR12 powered wedge. The band I play with most uses a Yamaha powered system (the DSR series), so I figure I'll get a pretty fair approximation of the FOH eq in my wedge. Plus, since the DXR has three inputs and a kind of "mini-mixer" on the back with "through" outputs, I can run the Fractal, my vocals, and a monitor send of everything else into it, then create my own monitor mix.

I've ordered the DXR; I'll let you know how it works out.

But if you're looking for a fairly non-colored, non-FRFR setup, the ZT Club is a pretty good choice; it's loud, but small.
 
its the distance thing I just cant get over, it doesn't sound like its in the room. Its not immediate at all and sounds so small.
 
Thanks Mongoose, not looking for small to be honest though. Size isn't an issue, I gigged for years with 5150 heads and Marshall or Mesa 4x12's and I think thats half the problem. Gone from having a few 4x12's with all that air being pushed to a 1x12 FRFR cab and its just not cutting it.

Cant get over how unimpressed I am with the Atomic though, so many people are loving them
 
jonnyguitarman said:
Thanks, already checked that thread out a while ago. Looked at getting an RCF, emailed the guy but £££££ way too much for a conversion to UK voltage, shipping and import duty etc.....
Click to expand...
They are available in the UK too - Sounds Live

I prefer the backup possiblilities of using a separate amp - I've already got the Matrix GT1000 and a 2x12 EV loaded cab so for FRFR frolics it's passives I'm in the market for .... I want to hear those Matrix CLs in my face sometime soon.
 
Johnny--I know what you mean. Through the PA, the Axe FX II might sound better than a 5150 through a mic'd Mesa 4X12, but when you're using the 5150 and the 4x12 onstage, you aren't hearing what the crowd hears (the amp-through-the-cabinet-through-the-mic-through-the-PA-speakers); you're hearing what the cabinet mic hears (the amp-through-the-cabinet)! You'd probably never notice that sense of detachment from the audience, since the Fractal will sound essentially the same to the crowd as it does onstage.

This is a terrific advantage in terms of dependably getting a predictably great sound out front, but since your vantage point is now at the end of the chain (instead of in the middle), you're going to naturally experience a less "immediate" sound, and that will take some getting used to.

This is kind of a radical suggestion--and probably veers in the exact opposite direction from what you want--but have you considered, since you're going to be readjusting anyway, using in-ears? If nothing else, the totally "removed" nature of in-ears normalizes the difference between the fractal and a live amp.

Or (I'm thinking way outside the box now), have you considered the idea that what you're missing isn't the "sound" so much as the physical sensation of the vibrations caused by the live amp with the 4x12? I played a gig once standing on an Auralex Gramma with a "Buttkicker" attached to it (ever used one? it's a speaker driver that doesn't make sound, but makes the platform vibrate as though you're standing in front of a 100-watt Marshall cranked to 11). Maybe it's the motion you miss, not the sound...
 
I was in your situation jonny, for a long time. After I got the Axe-II I invested in a Matrix GT1000FX (1U) and a pair of Zilla 2x12 vertical cabs, and now I'm pretty damn happy.
 
It took me awhile back in the day when I got my first line6 rig that it wasn't designed to sound like a guitar amp at all. It was designed to sound like an amp that had been mic'd and already gone to tape. That way, what you hear is what gets recorded.


Is it possible this what you are experiencing?
 
I'm not loving the Atomic Active Wedge I just purchased either. I have my Output knob at noon on the Axe-FX II and the Wedge volume at noon with the tweeter almost off and the thing still squeals like a pig even at pretty low volumes compared to my Bogner halfstack. Tried it at 4 rehearsals now to get rid of the feedback squeal with no luck. The only way to hear this thing over the drums is to almost max the wedge and then it is completely impossible to harness the squeals. Thinking of dumping the Atomic and just going all the way with IEMs.
 
I used to feel the same when I first went FRFR - lack of "that 4x12 punch", "moving air", "in the room" etc etc. I believe going FRFR needs a slight change of thinking in how one approaches setting a tone. Just reading through your posts, I get the feeling you're trying to dial the FRFR monitor sound to sound like a 4x12. That will probably always leave you feeling unhappy. Instead, try to think of your favourite band's guitar tone coming through your home audio, and try to emulate that - this is what the audience would hear.

This article was quite useful (although I dont really agree with buying the most expensive monitors. I have a pair of Altos and they absolutely rock) - http://forum.fractalaudio.com/amps-cabs/17084-buying-using-full-range-speakers-few-basics.html.
 
The Retro Channel Power amp sounds and feels fantastic, I used it with a 2/12 Bob Burt open back cab with old Celestion Black backs.
Sounded like a tube amp to me.
Chris
 
I guess buying different monitors is getting you nowhere. At least when you deliver your axyfied signal to the FOH it must work with many different PAs, so it should sound good with many different monitors as well. The QSC stuff is good stuff and it should sound decent, even when you prefer the RCFs.

The most important thing when you create patches is the cab block. I'd invest the most time there. Once you found your combinations (all you need is 3 or 4 different settings, for clean, crunch, distorted and maybe lead) it should sound and feel right. OK, a bit tedious work, but the most important step for a FRFR solution.

My 2ct/ YMMV
 
666was999 said:
I guess buying different monitors is getting you nowhere. At least when you deliver your axyfied signal to the FOH it must work with many different PAs, so it should sound good with many different monitors as well. The QSC stuff is good stuff and it should sound decent, even when you prefer the RCFs.

The most important thing when you create patches is the cab block. I'd invest the most time there. Once you found your combinations (all you need is 3 or 4 different settings, for clean, crunch, distorted and maybe lead) it should sound and feel right. OK, a bit tedious work, but the most important step for a FRFR solution.

My 2ct/ YMMV
Click to expand...
What he said.

IRs are KEY!!!! Much more than amps.
 
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