Line 6 DT25 with the AFX?

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paulmapp8306

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Tempted to try this.

I want a pick up and go combo anyway - and the DT25 as a "pure amp" looks pretty good, and a decent price.

I have had a look at the Midi implementation as well - and you can change channels, change amp configuration (the 4 modes) per channel, switch from Class A to A/B all with midi messages. That could make for a nice combo with the AFX. 4CM, so you can use the DTs "full blown tube amp" sound should you wish (switching channels, voicings and class as you wish with midi) OR use the AFX amp sims with the configurable valve power amp.

Definitely worth a try Id say - especially as Im looking for a decent, not too costly, valve combo anyway.
 
Not sure why you would want to use 4CM with this amp? That would mean you are preferring the DT25 modeled pres to the axe amp sims. But I would think running an axe into the fx return and switching the power amp functions would be cool.
 
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The amp isnt modelling. It uses no modelling whatsoever in the pre-amp section. The 4 Pre-amp modes are similar to how Mesa switch their modes. So is the PA modelling.

The only modelling on the DT itself is the power section when you flip a switch on the back - to allow low volume use. When you hook up a POD HD, it disables the DTs pre-amp and used the PDS. Its why in the vids its not as impressive with the POD hooked up.
 
I'm about 100% positive that the preamp section of the DT series is digital modeling. From the Line 6 site:

Behind each Voicing is the perfect recipe of dynamic analog circuitry (which includes tube configuration and negative feedback loop topology), and HD amp modeling technology (which fuels the preamp and tone stack). The choice is yours.
 
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The Dt 25 is a new model.

Spoke to the l6 rep in andertons who said the amp was 100% non modelling. Have to check it out in a bit more depth.
 
The amp has a modelling front end which is sent into a 12ax7 and then the power stage (el84), so there is modeling in it, but it does sound pretty good in the clips. I just recently got the midi implementation
info for it...might be cool to try with the axe 2!


    • I know there is a brief MIDI implementation chart on the last page of the pilot guide. You refer to Advanced MIDI control. Were you looking for more than this? You only mentioned topologies. Continous Controller (MIDI CC #) Value Function19 0-63 = Channel A, 64-127 = Channel B Channel A/B Toggle77 0 = Voicing I, 1 = Voicing II, 2 = Voicing III, 3 = Voicing IV Channel A Voicing (I, II, III, IV)73 0-63 = Class A, 64-127 = Class AB Channel A Operation Class Configuration (Class A / Class AB)75 0-63 = Triode, 64-127 = Pentode Channel A Power Tube Configuration (Pentode/Triode)36 0-63 = Reverb Off, 64-127 = Reverb On Channel A Reverb On/Off114 0 = Voicing I, 1 = Voicing II, 2 = Voicing III, 3 = Voicing IV Channel B Voicing (I, II, III, IV)115 0-63 = Class A, 64-127 = Class AB Channel B Operation Class Configuration (Class A / Class AB)116 0-63 = Triode, 64-127 = Pentode Channel B Power Tube Configuration (Pentode/Triode)105 0-63 = Reverb Off, 64-127 = Reverb On Channel B Reverb On/Off









 
paulmapp8306 said:
The Dt 25 is a new model.

Spoke to the l6 rep in andertons who said the amp was 100% non modelling. Have to check it out in a bit more depth.
Click to expand...

The amp is pure modelling in the preamp and reverb - only the poweramp is tube.


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Lol. Just spoke to them to nail this down. I've been told the pre amp is 100% valve, as is the power stage. Switching the modes changes the gain structure of the pre, and the topology of the power stage.

There is hf modelling, however it is restricted to the tonestack, which is how they achieve the distinct different sounds.

Not sure who to believe.

I do need a small combo, and it was between a tweeker at the low end or a ta15/30 at the high end. Might try a dt and see how it competes.
 
Believe us lol. The preamp is modeling. I mean, this is Line 6 we're talking about here. Would be a cold day in hell if they totally aborted modeling all together and went all tube. That would be like them saying "ok! We were wrong!"
 
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They say preamp and poweramp tubes are in the amp - thats true.

There are two preamp tubes - one is used as phase shifter (in the poweramp section) the other to warm up the sound - since they don"t trust their preamp modelling.

Its not possible to create a pure tube high gain sound with one tube only ;)

Spider Valve, DT50, DT25 is all the same - modelling preamp with tube poweramp.

The difference between the Spider and DT is that the DT uses the newer HD modelling and has the new (cool) switching poweramp - but even the pure tube poweramp workes only at high volume - if you play at bettroom level - then the DT is pure Line6 HD modelling (even the poweramp).

http://line6.com/dt50/faq.html

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Not necessarily.

There is a switch on the back - that enables the modelled Power amp section. you can still turnit down low and NOT engage this, giving you 100% pure valve power amp - with all its low volume limitations.
 
DT25 is up on line 6 site.

Why is DT25 a hybrid amp?

For a good reason: because low-wattage amps, when compared with 50- or 100-watt amps, have limited headroom and always “feel” small. DT25 solves that problem that with its powerful HD modeling providing the preamp. You get the headroom and reaction of a high-wattage amp because the preamp’s power supply is not limited by what the power tubes need to use, and in return you get a much bigger sound in a small package. This versatility means you can get the tone and feel of a 100W amp, without lugging 100W transformers around.

Being a hybrid amp also opens up the way for expansion through L6 LINK™ -- more amps and effects can interact with the flexible analog power amp of DT25.
 
Q: How does the modeling of the DT50/DT25 contribute to the overall tone?
A: In the DT50/DT25's "normal mode", the modeling performs the function of the preamp: mating the digital preamp with the analog power amp so the whole system creates the sound of the amp modeled. This is different than our previous Spider Valve amps, where we modelled the entire amp model (pre-amp and power amp) and then fed that signal through the output tube power section.

In "low power mode" (pulling the master volume switch out), the modeling will assume duties for the power amp section, so you can have the sound of a driven power amp at lower monitoring volume levels. If you turn the master volume knob all the way up in this mode, you will have Spider Valve-like tones (pre and power amp modeling pushing the EL34 tubes).

Source Line6:
http://line6.com/support/docs/DOC-2106


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Fascinating video of 3 guys demoing the DT25, where they try (and fail) to avoid mentioning amp brand names, but also try to avoid the word "modelling". Apparently L6 Marketing Dept has decided that modelling has negative connotations. As longtime self-proclaimed world wide leaders of modelling technology, they can presumably take credit for that perception :)
 
paulmapp8306 said:
Lol. Just spoke to them to nail this down. I've been told the pre amp is 100% valve, as is the power stage. Switching the modes changes the gain structure of the pre, and the topology of the power stage.

There is hf modelling, however it is restricted to the tonestack, which is how they achieve the distinct different sounds.

Not sure who to believe.

I do need a small combo, and it was between a tweeker at the low end or a ta15/30 at the high end. Might try a dt and see how it competes.
Click to expand...

If I had to choose I would probably go for the Mesa TA 15, It has really good tone, versatility and it's the only one that is built in the US.
 
Ringleader said:
Believe us lol. The preamp is modeling. I mean, this is Line 6 we're talking about here. Would be a cold day in hell if they totally aborted modeling all together and went all tube. That would be like them saying "ok! We were wrong!"
Click to expand...

+1. You can believe us or the guy trying to sell you something that says one 12AX7 can credibly mimic a dual rectifier's preamp gain.
 
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Ringleader said:
DT25 is up on line 6 site.

Why is DT25 a hybrid amp?

For a good reason: because low-wattage amps, when compared with 50- or 100-watt amps, have limited headroom and always “feel” small. DT25 solves that problem that with its powerful HD modeling providing the preamp. You get the headroom and reaction of a high-wattage amp because the preamp’s power supply is not limited by what the power tubes need to use, and in return you get a much bigger sound in a small package. This versatility means you can get the tone and feel of a 100W amp, without lugging 100W transformers around.

Being a hybrid amp also opens up the way for expansion through L6 LINK™ -- more amps and effects can interact with the flexible analog power amp of DT25.
Click to expand...

I think the reason a 100W amp always sounds larger is that there is more power to amplify all of those lower frequencies. Try a 5W and it will sound a little empty, but just as loud. A 100W is a raging beast that spews out chunks of monstrous low end in its tube-fire-breathing-wrath.
That being said, I prefer lower wattage amps cuz I can get earlier breakup, and I DON'T have that low end to compete with the bassist and drummer, and which makes a band mix more uncontrolled. I like it in a solo-type context because it just sounds that much more massive :D
 
Not sure why you would "need" a small combo if you have an axe, put it on top of a QSC KW122 and you have it all, perfection and portability, no directional issues, done :)
 
Sixstring said:
If I had to choose I would probably go for the Mesa TA 15, It has really good tone, versatility and it's the only one that is built in the US.
Click to expand...

lol As Im from the UK, the fact the TA is US built means absolutely nothing.

it really doesnt matter where a piece of equipment is build, as long as the build quality is there. Ive seen kit from China and Japan, UK and the rest of Europe all with better build quality that kit from the US. Ive also seen stuff from the same locations substantially worse than US build kit.

I really dont get why "built in the US" is such a big deal. I get the economic reasons for supporting stuff made in your home country - but as this is an international forum the phrase "its built in the US" gets used an awfull lot.


The guy I was speaking to wasnt a sales rep - he was the L6 rep there dealing withthe shop.

As to why I want a combo - After 3 years I have NEVER got on with FRFR. Im happy with amp/cab. However, FRFR or not the AFX rig is still a rack, a speaker, a floorboard and a guitar. When Im just popping to a mates or to a jam night I just want a pick up and go amp. One hand for the amp and the other for the guitar. Its also nice to have a real amp as a tonal reference.
 
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