Leveling with Cygnus (Out 1/2)

[MrPond]

Hi folks!

I think i need your help ... I normally have an out 1 (FOH) and out 2 block (running straight into Boss RC-5 and then into my Power Stage 170 poweramp), my amps were (with 3.0.2) around + 1/2/3db, out 1 is around -18 db and out 2 at level 0 db - that worked fine for me!
This setup does not work with Cygnus: 2R/2L is really low, but increasing amp levels end up in clippings.

Cygnus includes new output parameters to control out 2 (Unity Gain, Line Level -10/+4)
Visually, i can get an almost similar experience setting amp blocks around -12 db, out 1 and out 2 level at 0 db and line level setup mode with -10.
The question is: Am i right? Would be this the way to go? If my out 2 keeps under 0db, everything (my rc-5 and powerstage) should be working fine, right? ...

I would love to see an updated guide to level everything.

Thanks in advance!
Niklas

 

[Akstrat]

If you Copy Output 1 to Output 2, use Line Level and +4 db. This has my levels being close to the same. Best of luck.

 

[MrPond]

If you Copy Output 1 to Output 2, use Line Level and +4 db. This has my levels being close to the same. Best of luck.

I‘m running into a real cab with out 2 with some additional filters, so the copy function is not the right choice…

 

[Admin M@]

First, try setting Out 1 to 0 dB and lowering the amp levels. Use the preset leveling tool in FM3 Edit (find it in the Tools menu).

As for out 2, I'm guessing that your pedal wants instrument level, so this would normally be a unity gain application, but you're running amp blocks so some experimentation will be needed. I might try setting out 2 to line level and then lowering the Out 2 KNOB if the RC-5 is being driven too hard. Or, if the pedal likes a hot level, try setting Out 2 to Line and again lower the Out 2 knob to the required position.

 

[MrPond]

I'm really having a hard time on this topic. What i don't get: Why was 3.0.2 working and 4.0.0 screwed up (leveling wise) my presets.
If i take an untouched 3.0.2 preset ...

• setup: unity
• out 1: -18db
• out 2: 0db
• amp block 2.1db

This is what it looks like on 4.0



With 3.0.2, both were round about the same level.
With 4.0.0, i'm not able to level my amp block to hit 0db at out 2 (what my prefered option is to - like you said- try to hit a perfect instrument level at my pedal/power amp after the fm3) because it's around ... -20db now. Or, is this like before and only visually wrong?

Question would be: Why is there (since 4.0.0) a huge difference on out 2 (visually or level wise, i don't know)? In my understanding, 3.0.2 was running at unity gain - so on paper, 3.0.2 and 4.0.0 with unity gain shooould be the same, but they are not. This was my main problem on all betas, btw.

If i want to hit output 2 around 0, i need to crank out 2 block level to around +17/18db and this ends in clipping like hell.
So, no solution. I can not level out 2 in a right way.

To try your approach: Yes, my boss pedal and also the power stage both want unity gain instrument level because they are standard pedals.

"but you're running amp blocks so some experimentation will be needed. I might try setting out 2 to line level and then lowering the Out 2 KNOB if the RC-5 is being driven too hard. Or, if the pedal likes a hot level, try setting Out 2 to Line and again lower the Out 2 knob to the required position."

With this approach, i never can be super sure just to have a 100% clean non-too-hot driven instrument level.
With 3.0.2, i just needed to be sure that the out 2 knob is fully clockwise and i was ready to go - and this should be still the way to go.
So, having a hot output and dialing it back with a knob to be "round about" ok is not super cool and to be honest not the perfect way to go.

It seems that ...

• out 1 level 0
• out 2 level 0
• amps level around -14/-15 db
• setup line level -10

Looks (visually) somehow right:



The question is: COULD this setup be wrong in any way? How can i be sure that my output 2 is correct for pedals at instrument level?
My understanding is that line level is not the way to go into a pedal.
I just want to have the same level setup as before ... i think Cygnus is (leveling wise) really confusing and i'm having a hard time to be the only one having issues about it ... :/

And also a sidenote: An untouched 3.0.2 with setup unity gain is still louder as a reworked preset (like mentioned above) with line level -10.
Suuuuuuper confusing

Thanks for taking the time!
Niklas

 

[blackmoreguitar]

I set output 2 to line level and to +4db, and the out 2 meter is about the same as my out 1

 

[MrPond]

I set output 2 to line level and to +4db, and the out 2 meter is about the same as my out 1

Interesting aspect: Line level +4 does not change anything in my out 2 meters, it only gets louder.
Do you run your fm3 into a pedal platform power amp like me or into something different? ...
My power amp does not clip with -10 nor +4db - it seems so, despite the fact, it should require unity gain instrument level ...

 

[JRod4928]

First, try setting Out 1 to 0 dB and lowering the amp levels. Use the preset leveling tool in FM3 Edit (find it in the Tools menu).

As for out 2, I'm guessing that your pedal wants instrument level, so this would normally be a unity gain application, but you're running amp blocks so some experimentation will be needed. I might try setting out 2 to line level and then lowering the Out 2 KNOB if the RC-5 is being driven too hard. Or, if the pedal likes a hot level, try setting Out 2 to Line and again lower the Out 2 knob to the required position.

Is there a good video that explains what unity gain is, why it matters, and how to properly set it on my FM3 presets? I'm clueless when it comes to this stuff.

I just set my presets up so the output volume is properly balanced among all my presets. Usually tweaking the amp level to do so. No idea if this is proper.

 

[blackmoreguitar]

Interesting aspect: Line level +4 does not change anything in my out 2 meters, it only gets louder.
Do you run your fm3 into a pedal platform power amp like me or into something different? ...
My power amp does not clip with -10 nor +4db - it seems so, despite the fact, it should require unity gain instrument level ...

I'm actually just using out1 to FRFR at the moment. I was just messing with it to see if I could get the levels similar on the meters.

 

[MrPond]

So, my current stage is: Setup line Level -10, out 1 and out 2 both at 0db, amp level to taste (around -14/15db) but nothing that would kick both blocks beyond 0db - it seems to work and sound good. It's similar to the out1:foh/out2:cab factory setup (except the line level setup of course)

Unity gain does not work at all for me because i can't level out 2 to it (because it's really low), clips by adjusting it aaaaand is to low at my power amp. If line level works, fine by me - still confusing.