Kiss using Axefx?

Musicians and critics are very dismissive of their musicianship, but back before Gene always was trying to sing like a demon, when he just sang in a normal voice, or even a very slightly grovelly voice, like on the studio Rock N Roll All Nite, and they were sticking to their concept of "heavy metal Beatles" they had decent songs, with full band background harmonies, and walking bass lines, like the Beatles. Once he started singing like God of Thunder or Christine Sixteen on Alive II, I became annoyed and perturbed. Why didn't their manager or executive producer tell him the truth? That that "character voice" sounds like total crap, and he should just sing normal?

No, they are not on par with the Beatles, but I can hear the influence woven into a little heavier sound, as far as the background vocals and bass lines on the first 3 albums, and a little on Destroyer.

I wish they had never lost that approach.

It is pretty widely known that studio musicians were brought in to cover for Ace, but I suspect with their touring and album release schedule during their heyday, much more was being tracked by others. I've heard it said by Eddie Kramer that the only live audio from the KISS Alive! record is Ace's guitar track. But when you watch YouTube videos and bootlegs from that era, they sounded pretty much like that album. Maybe more care was taken on the vocals for the live recording, than what they did for a regular show, since, to them, the show was more important than perfect musicianship.

Part of me can step back and look at that stuff critically and sort of laugh, but that childhood part of me thinks they are awesome and superhero-ish.
 
I totally agree rod....68 and you can tell that they really appreciate the fans. Which i think is really cool. They kinda invented the big, over the top shows. They could have put all that money in there pockets but they really wanted to be the best live band of all time. Whether that is true is up to debate, but they are very high on the list of great live bands. And yes i was in the Kiss Army when i was 12. What a great band when your 12!!!
 
KISS is the band I've been the most fanatic of since I was 16 (ca 1981).
If a magazine had even a 1 x 1 inch b&w pic of a member, I had to have it! :mrgreen
Still have everything (available for some rich KISS fanatic one day).

I also learned of them by seeing ALIVE I in a store, but I believe the first recording I wore down was ALIVE II.
Bought every album, but my interest had run its course after the Unmasked album.
I had learned of jazzrock, Larry Carlton, Robben Ford, ... and it clearly was the higher road.
I do agree much of the earlier stuff still holds up and they can be proud of it in every way.
If there was time, I'd still get into it all over again :p

Many years later, I was surprised how unpolished some of Alive II sounded and how I didn't hear that as a teenager :lol


Bodde said:
Love the solo albums too (besides the Peter Criss one).
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The Peter Criss one has two of my fav Steve Lukather solos *ever* (and IMO is kinda the most "normal" good sounding album of the 4).
 
I was around during the KISS heyday. I was peripheral, as I was more of a Skynyrd/Allman/Eagles kind of guy at the time. (Just learning as a pup...)

I still remember a 'Guitar Player' (or some such mag at the time) who had Ace on the cover...the letters were (at the very least) scathing from those who read that rag. 'How can you put a paper guitarist on the cover', 'I guess you don't mean 'GOOD guitar player' mag', etc. I found it silly then that such rancor would exist for someone so popular at the time.

While I was not a huge KISS fan, I recognized even at a young age that these guys were distinctive, had good 'pump fist' songs, and a show that took entertainment to a new level. It's scarily reminiscent of present day posters on these boards who have great scorn for guitarists and musicians who are far above their ilk. Some version of snobbery that claims to fight the good fight for 'real' music, as opposed to that which is just plain fun. Guitarists get caught up in 'oh, I can play that easily', and consider themselves equal or better, but this crew (with the Alice Cooper's and like) created something that was pure entertainment, AND had good songs.

And FWIW, you still hear KISS on the radio 40ish years later, and even haters know the words to most of these songs. That should say something.

I agree with all the 'what have YOU done' comments. You can say 'I don't like the music', but calling out a band that has had a string of records and hits despite all the 'they're not that musically proficient' cacophony means that the critics are clearly missing something. Mostly that rock and roll is about 'fook you I'm going to be ME', and not about 'twelve tone technique'.

R
 
I was around during the kiss heyday also. I just didn't get it. When I was learning to play I wanted to learn what the good guys could play. Not the easy stuff. In high school I was learning to play all the songs and styles of Steve Howe, Robert Fripp, Al DiMeola etc. DiMeola actually talked me into applying to Berklee. (Another Story) I never bought a Kiss concert ticket so I'm sure I missed out on what they did best. I only listened to the music that my high school buddies would play and I just couldn't relate to it on any level. If it soothes any Kiss fans butthurt, I felt the same way about the Rolling Stones.

I do think they were rock and roll. They did their thing without apologies, which is great, until you get to Kanye West levels. They raised the bar for live shows. They were decades ahead of their time by bringing comic book characters alive on stage. How many billions has Marvel made with their comic book movies?

The thing I missed was that people loved them and loved their songs. That's really all that matters.

As for the what have You done questions, in retrospect I guess not much. I was a child prodigy that was fortunate enough to be blessed with the best musical education on the planet. I can play and sing like nearly anybody out there but I've never really found myself. I've managed to support myself with music since 1976, but I don't own a mansion or a Ferrari. I sold a couple hundred thousand copies of a Christmas song. (Still don't know how that happened) I estimate I've played about 10,000 live shows for anywhere between 1 and 104,000 people. I hope I've been able to make a positive impact on a few peoples lives if only for a few minutes.
 
Kiss has their place in rock history for sure. But I have to say, sitting very close to Gene at a 1979 concert, he could not play for crap in that demon outfit. Give him credit for wearing all that hardware and stuff, and still performing.

Never cared if they were musicians or not anyway, you either like their songs or you don't. It's not like you have to be brilliant to play the Beatles or Stones either. That is not what rock is about.
 
I can't say that I was ever a big fan of KISS in regards to their music, but I always respected them for putting on the makeup and making the show entertaining for their fans and for just being a part of rock history.... until I had the opportunity to work with them many years back. I was working as a "runner" at the Verizon Wireless Amphitheater in St. Louis at the time. For those that don't know the job of a "runner", I would be appointed to a specific band that is playing that evening and would be in charge of making sure they had all they needed throughout the day and if not, "running" to get whatever that may be. I've purchased jeans for Tom Morrello, a lot of stuff from Home Depot for the road crew and even specific music gear at the local music store for those times they left stuff in the last city, etc. It was a fun job and you definitely get to enjoy the perks of hanging out with band members all day and then see a great show. Lots of good memories. :)

Anyways... I was working the Kiss/Aerosmith tour at the time and after spending most the day with both bands, I was taken back by just how rude the Kiss members were. Paul was flipping out and screaming his head off because he had a chrome-plated mic stand base that was lost in transit from the prior day and wanted me to go get one immediately or he threatened to not play. It was 7:00pm on a Sunday evening. I told him that all music stores are closed and there was nothing I can to do find him one at this hour. He continued to flip out and beat around like a child. Afterwards, when I was given the task of ordering their crew dinner from a local 24hr restaurant (Steak n' Shake), that was a complete fiasco. We literally closed down the restaurant because they had ordered over $1000 worth of food. That's ALOT of burgers, fries and drinks. While divvying the meals out to the crew, they ended up being like 4 burgers and a couple of fries short. The tour manager began spouting off about how I sucked and that I was retarded and so on.... yelling, yelling. It was crazy. All the meanwhile, the Aerosmith camp was very nice and any hangups that may have occurred throughout the day, was worked out in a civil manner and everybody was fine with the job we did.

But outside of all that and what REALLY made me lose respect for the KISS members was what followed. St. Louis is an area that collaborates with large manufacturers such as Budweiser, etc. to help raise money for our Children's hospitals and the support of children with cancer and the St. Jude foundation. After the shows by both bands, they were each presented with a couple of guitars to sign so that they may be auctioned off to help raise money for these children's organizations. Aerosmith graciously signed a few guitars and were very supportive of the cause. KISS on the otherhand... well, they refused to sign unless they were paid to do so. I remember watching this happen in front of me and was absolutely disgusted! I remember my thoughts being, "You have made MILLIONS of $$ from your fans putting you where you are and when given the opportunity to give back and actually help others in a positive way, you refuse because of your inflated egos!?" It truly made me question how people that have been so blessed with everything they have, can be so un-giving to others less fortunate.

Anyways... this isn't a rant on why you shouldn't like KISS or their music. To each their own and I definitely feel they have made contributions to the world of rock and roll and I even do enjoy a few of their tunes, but for me the true person and what lies under all the fame and fortune is key and unfortunately that day, my viewpoint on this band was changed forever. :(
 
I don't have much experience with celebrity but I suspect many of us might be appalled by the behaviour of some of those we admire for their music. Hopefully we'd be equally impressed by the good deeds some do with the power their fame brings.
 
vAmp said:
The Peter Criss one has two of my fav Steve Lukather solos *ever* (and IMO is kinda the most "normal" good sounding album of the 4).
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Didn't know that. But still that album is so not Kiss that most (including me) consider it the worst of the four. I like Peter's voice though. Really like the Ace solo album and also Paul's is great. Love the 4 posters that came with it originally.

@Jeff B: thank you for the 'behind the scenes' story. As much as I love Kiss that attitude really sucks!
 
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Xrocker said:
I was around during the kiss heyday also. I just didn't get it. When I was learning to play I wanted to learn what the good guys could play. Not the easy stuff. In high school I was learning to play all the songs and styles of Steve Howe, Robert Fripp, Al DiMeola etc. DiMeola actually talked me into applying to Berklee. (Another Story) ............................

As for the what have You done questions, in retrospect I guess not much. I was a child prodigy that was fortunate enough to be blessed with the best musical education on the planet. I can play and sing like nearly anybody out there but I've never really found myself. I've managed to support myself with music since 1976, but I don't own a mansion or a Ferrari. I sold a couple hundred thousand copies of a Christmas song. (Still don't know how that happened) I estimate I've played about 10,000 live shows for anywhere between 1 and 104,000 people. I hope I've been able to make a positive impact on a few peoples lives if only for a few minutes.
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As I was reading the first paragraph I was thinking if you were learning Howe, Fripp, DiMeola and the likes in high school I can see Kiss boring you. I'd like to hear the Dimeola story (throw it up in the lounge sometime!).

Kiss was my gateway to those guys. Growing up in the rural south east (US) with just average exposure to music I didn't have a lot to choose from. I do remember around the age of 10 looking for something I haven't heard. I searched the families collection of Johnny Cash, Elvis, Merl etc. An aunt gave a Michael Jackson and a Jackson Five album for Christmas one year. But that didn't do it.

Oddly enough a buddy puts on Dressed to Kill as we waited for our ride to a weekly Boy Scout meeting (12 years old maybe?). That was what I was looking for. So when I asked who it was he throws a Creem magazine at me and I see all the blood and effects. I was sold. I bought every album up to The Elder but had really been disappointed with them since Love Gun and had moved on to Zep, Jimi, Crimson, DiMeola and on to VH etc. I guess if it had not been them I would have eventually stumbled upon some of the other guys.
 
Bodde said:
Didn't know that. But still that album is so not Kiss that most (including me) consider it the worst of the four.
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It was actually my uncle who first taped Alive II for me that found Peter's clearly the best (and I was influenced by him at that time).
I think I loved Paul's and Ace's the best (kinda natural for anyone to not pick the drummer), but I did see my uncle's point later on.
You could at least play something like Peter Criss - Hooked on Rock `N´ Roll - YouTube or
www.youtube.com/watch?v=xG-zwx0fgqk#t=0h1m17s to a Kiss hater and I think they would have to admit that is good music in all respects.

BTW: I believe Criss hardly played drums on the album himself? :mrgreen

Was with the Dutch Kiss Army too :) (but never attended a meeting).
 
Waldo Nova said:
I went backstage on 7/2 in concord and snapped a pic of Phil Collen's rack and it had an axefx2, but KISS was all ENGL.
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I did some work and axe fx programming for Def Leppard & Vivian Campbell before the tour. All the guys got a fractal in their rack. Scotty, (Alex Lifeson's tech) is teching for Phil Collen this tour.
 
That is awesome. I hear Phil is playing some bass, too.

7yra6uby.jpg
 
Waldo Nova said:
Here ya go... these are pics from 7/2 Concord, CA. I was able to get up on the stage and snap a pic of Phil Collen's AxeFx2, KISS meet/greet with my son, front row for Leppard and soundboard area for KISS with Shannon Tweed!!




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Awesome looks like Phil is just using the Axe now. I'm going to the Holmdel NJ show in a few weeks cannot wait to see them.
 
Waldo Nova said:
Here ya go... these are pics from 7/2 Concord, CA. I was able to get up on the stage and snap a pic of Phil Collen's AxeFx2, KISS meet/greet with my son, front row for Leppard and soundboard area for KISS with Shannon Tweed!!




Click to expand...


Awesome looks like Phil is just using the Axe now. I'm going to the Holmdel NJ show in a few weeks cannot wait to see them.
 
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