Jcm 800 mini game : helix or axe ?

[My name is mud]

Agreed! Hearing them in a mix would be interesting.

Though I’ve never explicitly A/Bed HX vs. AFX, I did find the HX tones lending themselves to sitting nicely in a mix. That’s not a comparison, just something I noticed out of the box.

I don’t currently own any HX products, because I have the AFX3 & FM9. But I’ve owned each gadget in the HX family, except the Helix Rack and the Stomp XL.

I have only a few old videos left where I play an helix LT

Here is one of them



You know, when you put a small low cut etc… the basics , it sit in a mix like everything else …

In a mix it will be even harder to find who is who as the details are a little bit hidden

And this one on bass ( I need to redo it I play it bad here ) that’s oooollld .

 

[yyz67]

I prefer A

Maybe it's from having gone through an audiophile phase of "listening into" the subtle details, but in these "A/B which is which?" tests, I don't listen for what I prefer tone-wise or in isolation or in a mix.

I listen for subtle characteristics I hear when I play the Axe that are independent of the tonal shape or EQ. These can be pretty subtle and wouldn't be heard in a full band mix.

B= AXE FX, reason why is that note bloom after hitting the note

Agreed. The distortion/saturation in the Axe seems to have a subtle dynamic bloom and scintillation that sounds (and feels) less static, less like simple signal processing. My guess is that a variety of non-linearities (of which amp circuits have many) and hysteresis (memory) effects are a significant part of this.

 

[flitz]

Maybe it's from having gone through an audiophile phase of "listening into" the subtle details, but in these "A/B which is which?" tests, I don't listen for what I prefer tone-wise or in isolation or in a mix.

I listen for subtle characteristics I hear when I play the Axe that are independent of the tonal shape or EQ. These can be pretty subtle and wouldn't be heard in a full band mix.


Agreed. The distortion/saturation in the Axe seems to have a subtle dynamic bloom and scintillation that sounds (and feels) less static, less like simple signal processing. My guess is that a variety of non-linearities (of which amp circuits have many) and hysteresis (memory) effects are a significant part of this.

But that's also a personal interpretation, the purpose of the guitar tone is to sit adequate in the mix and to show its specific characteristics. The simple truth is that if you have all the right tone shaping tools you can make anything you want and FAS provides a variety of them in our disposal.

 

[alcyppa]

Being mostly a Marshall style user (althoug I don't like the JCM800 that much) I'd say A Helix and B Axe Fx just because the A clip has that low midrange thing that I find difficult to dial out on my HX Stomp.
I like the distortion character better on clip B also.

 

[ApocalypticKatana]

are these tones hitting the digital power amp at all? Curious?

I’m not sure if the helix has something like the headroom meter in axe edit but that headroom meter is like “cheating” for maximum preamp distortion tones

Literal godsend of a feature, simple but awesome

 

[Randall d]

I don't know if it is just me, but Line 6 products typically sound like the distortion is somehow layered in after the fact and somewhat lying on top of the tone (somewhat detached). I hear that in the first clip. A soon as I heard it (before I heard the B clip) I immediately said to myself: that has the Line 6 signature tone with the detached distortion". Then I heard the B clip and it was confirmed. In the B clip the distortion sounds like an integral part of the tone, not an after-thought. The lows sound a little detached too. Like they are not part of the original tone, but added later. It almost sounds like they divide the tone into three frequency spectrums and apply differing amounts and types of distortion to each range, and then paste them back together. Does anyone else hear that?

 

[yyz67]

the purpose of the guitar tone is to sit adequate in the mix and to show its specific characteristics

Hmm, I'm confused. I read the title (purpose) of the thread as "Jcm 800 mini game : helix or axe ?" not "Which do you prefer, A or B?"

These are two independent questions, the first is objective (known by mud) and the second subjective. I might prefer A (e.g. iso or in a mix) but think B is the Axe, or prefer B but think A is the Axe. Etc.

I was simply describing differences I hear in A vs B, but not making any subjective judgment as to which is "better" or which would sit in a mix. I believe that is a valid question but distinct from mud's mini game.

The simple truth is that if you have all the right tone shaping tools you can make anything you want and FAS provides a variety of them in our disposal.

Yes, amazing that we are privileged enough to have many choices of devices and options, whether FAS or other.

 

[My name is mud]

Hmm, I'm confused. I read the title (purpose) of the thread as "Jcm 800 mini game : helix or axe ?" not "Which do you prefer, A or B?"

These are two independent questions, the first is objective (known by mud) and the second subjective. I might prefer A (e.g. iso or in a mix) but think B is the Axe, or prefer B but think A is the Axe. Etc.

I was simply describing differences I hear in A vs B, but not making any subjective judgment as to which is "better" or which would sit in a mix. I believe that is a valid question but distinct from mud's mini game.


Yes, amazing that we are privileged enough to have many choices of devices and options, whether FAS or other.

yep exactly, the thing is not "which one is better" as the amps are not tweaked and all the controls are all at noon approx ... it is more about if you can recognize the origin of the texture of each of them

 

[My name is mud]

are these tones hitting the digital power amp at all? Curious?

I’m not sure if the helix has something like the headroom meter in axe edit but that headroom meter is like “cheating” for maximum preamp distortion tones

Literal godsend of a feature, simple but awesome

No headroom meter but input and global output meter directly in the editor main screen

 

[Marantz]

Ok last one !

same ir , same guitar, trying to match both model by ears ... (a good exercice) can you recognize the units ?

Honestly, I prefer A, whatever it is.

Funny. I made some discoveries this weekend with the Axe that have modified my opinion, not changed it.

I did prefer A at the time, it is smoother, it is the Helix. The presentation of all the notes is more even sounding which appealed to me at the time. Can this be done with the Axe? Yes. I did it last weekend, stick a compressor after the amp, tune it in just right and you can get that evenness of the chord voicings.

The Axe , or Clip B in this test, is, as another poster stated, more 'dimensional', yea, this sounds to me like the Depth knob turned to about 5. The depth may be coming from the depth switch or it might be coming from the speaker in the amp section, which has a lot of the amps with a big bump around the 100hz region. In a mix, 100hz is for the bass or kick. I usually take the 100hz bump and move it to 150 or 200 hz to get a neater or tighter distorted guitar tone.

 

[yyz67]

The Axe , or Clip B in this test, is, as another poster stated, more 'dimensional', yea, this sounds to me like the Depth knob turned to about 5. The depth may be coming from the depth switch or it might be coming from the speaker in the amp section, which has a lot of the amps with a big bump around the 100hz region.

I think I mentioned dimensionality. By this I personally don't mean anything to do with depth or an EQ bump (e.g. 100Hz). It seems more to be a subtle characteristic of the overdrive harmonics that sounds "alive" (~ bloom / scintillation) compared to the Helix which sounds "flat" in comparison. It's pretty subtle, but once you tune into that quality it's obvious that the Helix doesn't seem to do that -- at least in these comparisons. @ApocalypticKatana seems to hear it as well "B= AXE FX, reason why is that note bloom after hitting the note".

But: my ears/brain could be full of s**t.

 

[la szum]

I don't know if it is just me, but Line 6 products typically sound like the distortion is somehow layered in after the fact and somewhat lying on top of the tone (somewhat detached). I hear that in the first clip. A soon as I heard it (before I heard the B clip) I immediately said to myself: that has the Line 6 signature tone with the detached distortion". Then I heard the B clip and it was confirmed. In the B clip the distortion sounds like an integral part of the tone, not an after-thought. The lows sound a little detached too. Like they are not part of the original tone, but added later. It almost sounds like they divide the tone into three frequency spectrums and apply differing amounts and types of distortion to each range, and then paste them back together. Does anyone else hear that?

I have heard an Helix for maybe 1000+ hours live in a full band setting. I have ALWAYS heard that.

Just don't say anything to the other guitarist in the band I also play in. Because Friendship > Tone.