I've got a big problem with the FM3

LosD said:
“They all sound the same”

Have you tried the Cameron CCV? 🤘 :cool:
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This really is the best amp for gainy stuff IMO. It gets that George Lynch/Warren DiMartini juiciness like nothing else. I played with other amps for a while and then stumbled on this one. Since then, I've tried a few others based on recommendations, but I keep coming back to the Cameron. It is SO good.
 
TheloniusJ said:
This really is the best amp for gainy stuff IMO. It gets that George Lynch/Warren DiMartini juiciness like nothing else. I played with other amps for a while and then stumbled on this one. Since then, I've tried a few others based on recommendations, but I keep coming back to the Cameron. It is SO good.
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Oh no.. you mean there are still more great amps to discover? I'll never get anything done lol.
 
usersnoozer said:
I genuinely believe people who think Helix competes with Fractal on amp sounds are lying to themselves.
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I've gone in even harder on these remarks because it's flat out lying and what pisses me off is that I could have saved a few years by switching earlier, and when I see guys asking the same questions about moving from Helix to fractal, they should be able to hear the truth. Instead what happens is a bunch of goons cloud the conversation deliberately because they want to feel better about their Helix choice, and what kills me is they are usually not high gain players but still feel the need to propagate this myth that you can't tell any difference.
 
Paulzx said:
I've gone in even harder on these remarks because it's flat out lying and what pisses me off is that I could have saved a few years by switching earlier, and when I see guys asking the same questions about moving from Helix to fractal, they should be able to hear the truth. Instead what happens is a bunch of goons cloud the conversation deliberately because they want to feel better about their Helix choice, and what kills me is they are usually not high gain players but still feel the need to propagate this myth that you can't tell any difference.
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The form factor and interface of the HX Stomp is so good that it makes people think the overall Helix platform sounds a lot better than it really does.
 
usersnoozer said:
The form factor and interface of the HX Stomp is so good that it makes people think the overall Helix platform sounds a lot better than it really does.
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Yeah I mean Helix floor is still the most versatile functionality with the foot switches, pedal board layout and rocker pedal, I've always said that openly, and if you're on a tighter budget it's a good buy in most cases, but it's not in the same league for high gain tones and I don't know why people can't just be honest about it. You know these guys know the truth because they never claim the Helix is better, they just say they sound close enough to not notice.

It's BS, they don't sound close. I run them side by side every day, they never sound close in any circumstance - not in high gain.
Surely the artist roster for Fractal alone tells you a story!
 
Paulzx said:
So I've had the FM3 for a few months, and I have a very big problem - the tones are so good, I can't settle on one
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Oddly enough, I've never really had that problem. I went through that phase of "OMG I HAVE EVERYTHING", though there are a couple specific things still missing that I would find value in. At some point, I kinda got over it. If I want a playground with all the stuff, I've got it, but when I'm actually playing....I've used the same amp model for well over a year and barely even look at the amp page anymore.
 
marsonic said:
Oddly enough, I've never really had that problem. I went through that phase of "OMG I HAVE EVERYTHING", though there are a couple specific things still missing that I would find value in. At some point, I kinda got over it. If I want a playground with all the stuff, I've got it, but when I'm actually playing....I've used the same amp model for well over a year and barely even look at the amp page anymore.
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Yeah I get that, but you have to remember I've come from the Helix and I'm playing high gain rock and wanting to tone match some of the big names, so I was dialling in tones for years on the Helix using basically, a modded marshall 2203, and Engl and an Archon, none of which really hit the spot. They were okayish but you would be tweaking them the very next day because you were never happy with them entirely.

When i picked up the FM3, I honestly thought 'look, I know I want to scratch the fractal itch just for my own piece of mind, but I honestly think it won't be better enough to justify selling a helix which is dialled in to the max, with all custom switch layouts etc.. but I was wrong! Not only are there so many more high gain amp options on the fractal, but each model is a lot better than the Helix version. They are just deeper fuller tones. They don't have that horrible brittle harsh high end the Helix tones have. The fractal is so much more pleasurable to play and that's why I keep singing the praises of the FM3.

I never thought I would sacrifice 8 foot switches, one volume pedal, easy custom layouts etc, for a device with just 3 foot switches. But the FM3 is that good, I don't even care now. I've done a basic needs pedal layout for now, will add and FC6 later. It just proves that for me at least, superior sound and sheer pleasure of playing, was far more important than the practical benefits I had with the Helix.

The Helix is still good for some things don't get me wrong. The fractal is clunky with custom editing, but it's not hard to edit using FM3 edit like some people would have you believe. But all of those ease of use arguments are secondary to the sound, for me at least
 
I've been using Line 6 gear for most of my guitar-playing journey, starting with a budget-friendly 75-watt Spider amp and later opting for the POD HD 400. I have always hated Line 6, but it's all I could afford. I spent way too much time delving into mastering chains, master volume adjustments on non MV amps, EQ, IRs, and the seemingly endless need for expensive peripherals like $1000 headphones, audio interfaces, and studio monitors to make it "sound good".

After stumbling upon a video of Leon Todd effortlessly creating a JCM 800 preset on the Axe FX III, I was sold on the Fractal. I bought an FM3, and the difference was amazing. Instead of spending hours on the computer to no avail trying to dial in a cranked AC15 sounds, I got it on the FM3 in 30 seconds by selecting the AC15 factory present and tweaking on the BASIC amp controls on the device UI. No PC needed. I spend a lot more time playing these days. I pick a preset, maybe change the cab some amp EQ, and play. I can't believe I wasted so much time and money on L6 and hoping that I was somehow inept, even though I sounded great through a tube amp.

Tonocracy recently caught my attention. Sounds great, especially the SchemAccurate models. I dare say Fractal levels. Miles above L6 for sure, I'd say better than Helix even. Obviously, it's a plugin and it doesn't have ALL the features of a high-end modelling system, but it has enough amps/basic effects/good sounding reverb I would have killed to have that instead of the L6 stuff when I started out. For the price of a low-end modeler, you can get an interface and headphones. Enjoy playing and save up for a real amp to play with people/band. I can't believe they are giving away for free, and refunding people who bought it. I take it as a big shot at the low-end modeling/plugin market.

Speaking of real amps, my problem with the FM3 is I only have headphones.
 
ksanman said:
I can't believe I wasted so much time and money on L6 and hoping that I was somehow inept, even though I sounded great through a tube amp.
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Yep I know exactly where you're coming from. The JCM 800 on the Helix was a bit anaemic sounding. The one on the fractal is pretty nice, but that's the story across all of the high gain tones by comparison. I feel like I wasted a bit of time too. I'm not blaming L6 at all, the Helix is a perfectly good unit for some things, but not if you're fussy about rock and metal tones. I can vouch for this in spades now.

Over on TGP I have just been accused of confirmation bias by stating the fractal is much better. Confirmation bias from me.. a guy who has BOTH modelers haha! This is what annoys me, the moment you try and save someone else wasting time by recommending fractal, they jump straight on you. All I want to do is share my experience for other guitarists who are in a similar position to what I was.
 
Paulzx said:
Yep I know exactly where you're coming from. The JCM 800 on the Helix was a bit anaemic sounding. The one on the fractal is pretty nice, but that's the story across all of the high gain tones by comparison. I feel like I wasted a bit of time too. I'm not blaming L6 at all, the Helix is a perfectly good unit for some things, but not if you're fussy about rock and metal tones. I can vouch for this in spades now.

Over on TGP I have just been accused of confirmation bias by stating the fractal is much better. Confirmation bias from me.. a guy who has BOTH modelers haha! This is what annoys me, the moment you try and save someone else wasting time by recommending fractal, they jump straight on you. All I want to do is share my experience for other guitarists who are in a similar position to what I was.
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Yeah, that happens, and I really don't understand where it comes from. People are better about it IRL, but their attitude is still a bit dismissive a lot of the time.

I really don't get it. Is it just because the Fractals are a bit more expensive?
 
marsonic said:
Yeah, that happens, and I really don't understand where it comes from. People are better about it IRL, but their attitude is still a bit dismissive a lot of the time.

I really don't get it. Is it just because the Fractals are a bit more expensive?
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I don't understand "gang" mentality when discussing modelers. People seem to take it personally though. Does this happen with tube amps?

I do think there is a certain something about Fractal vs the world of others because of a lack of easy accessibility (you can't just order one from SW or Amazon, etc.). There have been multiple threads and comments posted bemoaning a lack of big box store presence for FAS and how Cliff is really screwing up with his business model. :p
 
marsonic said:
Yeah, that happens, and I really don't understand where it comes from. People are better about it IRL, but their attitude is still a bit dismissive a lot of the time.

I really don't get it. Is it just because the Fractals are a bit more expensive?
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I think what it is, is that the Helix guys have settled with it and invested a lot of time into that platform and they don't want to change, but they also don't want to acknowledge there are better sounding modelers either. I was always curious about what the other modelers were doing but the moment I asked on the Helix forum if anybody had any comparisons to Fractal, I was damn near chased out haha.

You will notice that no one ever claims the Helix is better than the fractal, it's a more defensive 'there's no noticeable difference' type of argument.
When I was playing my Helix all the time, the only pro of any note who was using it was Jen Majura in Evanescence, but honestly her tone sounded a bit underwhelming in any of the demos she was doing. You look at the fractal artists and it's full of top names from the industry.

I don't even switch my Helix floor on anymore. I'll have to sell it actually. In my opinion, all rock and metal players should be using fractal, not Helix, not in 2024 anyway. For ambient players maybe it's less noticeable and that's fair enough.

Funnily enough I've never had a high gain player try to convince me their Helix is just as good as a Fractal. It's always these other guys who don't play high gain tones that argue. They simply think because there are high gain models in the Helix, they must be comparable. They are wrong, royally!
 
I started with an X3 live many years ago, then a GT-1000 Core during the pandemic. I find myself just using the presets because I found them thin when making my own one. Ever since owning a Fractal a few weeks ago, I haven't touched the fractal presets yet, but the patches I make are what I want to hear. Amazing stuff
 
Rybanez said:
I started with an X3 live many years ago, then a GT-1000 Core during the pandemic. I find myself just using the presets because I found them thin when making my own one. Ever since owning a Fractal a few weeks ago, I haven't touched the fractal presets yet, but the patches I make are what I want to hear. Amazing stuff
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That's been my experience too. I matched an Iron Maiden live tone last night in about 20 mins. Mostly because the amp model was so good to begin with, I didn't need to EQ the hell out of it or trick it up some how. That was never the case with the Helix, sadly.
 
Paulzx said:
Best you don't go over there mentioning that. You'll get us all killed!
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I mention it whenever it comes up and I notice it. I just don't argue about it.

There was a thread the other day where someone asked a handful of specific questions. I went in to answer what I could. Someone had already answered it pretty directly, saying something that boiled down to "yeah, it can do that, you might have to put some work in to figure out which way works for you, and go check out the Fractal forums for more details." IDK...maybe the tide's turning a bit.

But, yeah...I bought the FM3 because I really wanted to play a model of a high power tweed twin, and it was the only one out there that I saw. And, uh....yeah, not only is that my favorite "amp" I've played (though I hate the Jensens it's "supposed to be" paired with), the fractal just does everything I want a guitar rig to do. I know I'm gushing and "preaching" to the choir, but...IMO, it's just down to how you want to hear them.

FWIW, I did do a (not serious) mix project not too long ago that had a lot of DI tracks. I did it to remind myself how to mix because I haven't done it in years (I've been playing for myself and mastering for other people, just not mixing). And, no, I didn't set up a preset for each one and "reamp" them through my fractal. Making 10 presets and re-recording them all in real time was way more time than I was willing to invest, so I used a NeuralDSP plugin for those. And...it worked out fine in the mix. It was also fun to play through because it was an amp that I like but that the Fractals don't have...maybe about 90% of the way there in sound in that context. But, if you're actually playing as opposed to mixing and include the effects but not all the other plugins I was using...it's still nowhere close. IMHO.

So, depending on your goals and priorities, I'm no longer 100% convinced that a Fractal is the only thing you'll ever need....but I also haven't played through the plugin again since then.

I'm also very much an ITB guy other than on the way in. I honestly don't see the point of going back to Analog after you've got all the audio you're mixing in the computer. But if I were actually mixing professionally and expected to get a lot of DIs...I'd be saving up for a pair of AF3s with the goal of being able to "reamp" 4 DIs at once.
 
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marsonic said:
I mention it whenever it comes up and I notice it. I just don't argue about it.

There was a thread the other day where someone asked a handful of specific questions. I went in to answer what I could. Someone had already answered it pretty directly, saying something that boiled down to "yeah, it can do that, you might have to put some work in to figure out which way works for you, and go check out the Fractal forums for more details." IDK...maybe the tide's turning a bit.

But, yeah...I bought the FM3 because I really wanted to play a model of a high power tweed twin, and it was the only one out there that I saw. And, uh....yeah, not only is that my favorite "amp" I've played (though I hate the Jensens it's "supposed to be" paired with), the fractal just does everything I want a guitar rig to do. I know I'm gushing and "preaching" to the choir, but...IMO, it's just down to how you want to hear them.

FWIW, I did do a (not serious) mix project not too long ago that had a lot of DI tracks. I did it to remind myself how to mix because I haven't done it in years (I've been playing for myself and mastering for other people, just not mixing). And, no, I didn't set up a preset for each one and "reamp" them through my fractal. Making 10 presets and re-recording them all in real time was way more time than I was willing to invest, so I used a NeuralDSP plugin for those. And...it worked out fine in the mix. It was also fun to play through because it was an amp that I like but that the Fractals don't have...maybe about 90% of the way there in sound in that context. But, if you're actually playing as opposed to mixing and include the effects but not all the other plugins I was using...it's still nowhere close. IMHO.

So, depending on your goals and priorities, I'm no longer 100% convinced that a Fractal is the only thing you'll ever need....but I also haven't played through the plugin again since then.

I'm also very much an ITB guy other than on the way in. I honestly don't see the point of going back to Analog after you've got all the audio you're mixing in the computer. But if I were actually mixing professionally and expected to get a lot of DIs...I'd be saving up for a pair of AF3s with the goal of being able to "reamp" 4 DIs at once.
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Interesting, well you're doing more complicated stuff than me. I'm still trying to decide what my favourite amps are, there are are many I like!
 
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