Is the gain structure on the Mark IV really like this?

Frozen

Frozen

Inspired
Hi guys,

currently im trying to create a Petrucci tone and therefore im using the usa lead 1 sim in the axe-fx. What bothers me is, that even with gain set to 8 (!) and input trim set to 1.7, the sound doesnt seem to be juicy enough. Im playing through a Fame Forum IV guitar with DiMarzio D-Activator pick-ups - these are pretty hot pick ups. With other amps, such as the das metall, im setting the gain to about 4-5 and its tight, punchy and juicy as hell. As i never owned a Mark IV im curios to know, if the real world equivalent amp is really that low gain. Strange thing is though, petrucci sets gain to about 1:30-2 o'clock and gets that hefty tone. I even own a MM JP guitar, but with the pick-ups in that guitar i dont even come close to the tone with gain settings like that.
I made a little recording with my current patch, so you can hear what im talking about. Settings as stated above, Gain 8, input trim 1,7, Master 2.98. It might not be that audible in the clip, but the notes really dont sustain as i would expect them to. Playing through that sim feels more like a mid-gain amp, rather than a high gainer.

[Soundcloud]http://soundcloud.com/stockman/mark-iv-1[/Soundcloud]

Thanks!
 
Depends I guess. How big is your biceps? Petrucci's got massive biceps. That's gotta affect the tone somehow.

I think petrucci use some kind of V shaped eq on his sound but i'm not sure.
 
I know it goes against traditional thinking, but don't be afraid to turn the master up. Pettruci's settings on his Mark V look to be around 11:00 on the master. Turn it up until it sounds right, and disregard any thoughts of where it "should" be.
 
hehe, my biceps is as big as petruccis pinky i guess... ;)

he is in fact using that smiley face eq on the amp, which i tried to recreate on the axe-fx. EQ-wise im pretty happy with the sound though, its just the gain that puzzles me. I'll try to bring the master a little bit up and will report here asap ;).
 
Frozen said:
Hi guys,

currently im trying to create a Petrucci tone and therefore im using the usa lead 1 sim in the axe-fx. What bothers me is, that even with gain set to 8 (!) and input trim set to 1.7, the sound doesnt seem to be juicy enough. Im playing through a Fame Forum IV guitar with DiMarzio D-Activator pick-ups - these are pretty hot pick ups. With other amps, such as the das metall, im setting the gain to about 4-5 and its tight, punchy and juicy as hell. As i never owned a Mark IV im curios to know, if the real world equivalent amp is really that low gain. Strange thing is though, petrucci sets gain to about 1:30-2 o'clock and gets that hefty tone. I even own a MM JP guitar, but with the pick-ups in that guitar i dont even come close to the tone with gain settings like that.
I made a little recording with my current patch, so you can hear what im talking about. Settings as stated above, Gain 8, input trim 1,7, Master 2.98. It might not be that audible in the clip, but the notes really dont sustain as i would expect them to. Playing through that sim feels more like a mid-gain amp, rather than a high gainer.

[Soundcloud]http://soundcloud.com/stockman/mark-iv-1[/Soundcloud]

Thanks!
Click to expand...
I own mark IV and might check that for you but you must know that i've got A version of mark IV and there was a difference between A&B and also my tubes are due to be changed(which im not going to do :p as I'm a fresh II owner).
 
Last edited:
I own a Mark V, used to own a Mark IV 12 years ago but that was only for a month so I can't compare. I can say with the Mark IV years ago I was into blues and fusion, and with the gain up I thought of it as a blues fusion amp more so than metal. On the Mark V forums you find some people unsatisfied with the level of gain on tap. It is enough for me and we play music from SRV and Prince to Tool and COC. I found by turning up the Mater I keep my gain at about 2pm on the real thing. I used to dime... The Mark series is a precision lead amp so it never gets as notes and harmonics flying of the board effortlessly as some other amps. The trade off though is that the Mark series tracks every single note with precision and clarity, while in the midst of some of the other amps fire breathing, notes in fast runs can get jumbled. IMHO, YMMV
 
Frozen said:
Hi guys,

currently im trying to create a Petrucci tone and therefore im using the usa lead 1 sim in the axe-fx. What bothers me is, that even with gain set to 8 (!) and input trim set to 1.7, the sound doesnt seem to be juicy enough. Im playing through a Fame Forum IV guitar with DiMarzio D-Activator pick-ups - these are pretty hot pick ups. With other amps, such as the das metall, im setting the gain to about 4-5 and its tight, punchy and juicy as hell. As i never owned a Mark IV im curios to know, if the real world equivalent amp is really that low gain. Strange thing is though, petrucci sets gain to about 1:30-2 o'clock and gets that hefty tone. I even own a MM JP guitar, but with the pick-ups in that guitar i dont even come close to the tone with gain settings like that.
I made a little recording with my current patch, so you can hear what im talking about. Settings as stated above, Gain 8, input trim 1,7, Master 2.98. It might not be that audible in the clip, but the notes really dont sustain as i would expect them to. Playing through that sim feels more like a mid-gain amp, rather than a high gainer.

[Soundcloud]http://soundcloud.com/stockman/mark-iv-1[/Soundcloud]

Thanks!
Click to expand...

That sounds like a Mark to me. It might not feel gainy enough, but if you listen to it it does have a good amount of gain. It's the nature of the Mark series.
 
Frozen said:
Hi guys,

currently im trying to create a Petrucci tone and therefore im using the usa lead 1 sim in the axe-fx. What bothers me is, that even with gain set to 8 (!) and input trim set to 1.7, the sound doesnt seem to be juicy enough. Im playing through a Fame Forum IV guitar with DiMarzio D-Activator pick-ups - these are pretty hot pick ups. With other amps, such as the das metall, im setting the gain to about 4-5 and its tight, punchy and juicy as hell. As i never owned a Mark IV im curios to know, if the real world equivalent amp is really that low gain. Strange thing is though, petrucci sets gain to about 1:30-2 o'clock and gets that hefty tone. I even own a MM JP guitar, but with the pick-ups in that guitar i dont even come close to the tone with gain settings like that.
I made a little recording with my current patch, so you can hear what im talking about. Settings as stated above, Gain 8, input trim 1,7, Master 2.98. It might not be that audible in the clip, but the notes really dont sustain as i would expect them to. Playing through that sim feels more like a mid-gain amp, rather than a high gainer.

Thanks!
Click to expand...


I have played Mark V a few times, the gain on Mark IV on Axe FX II is nowhere close the actual Mark V. I had a hard time trying to make it sound like Mark V. I gave up. :)
 
I just sold my IIC+ and MKIII. I know these are different amps but similar enough. The Axe II models have much less available gain. I find that the input trim has to be pretty high. I wish this would change. I like the MK amps better on the Ultra. For some reason I just don't like that I have to crank the input trim. FW change please Cliff?


I'm a high gain djent djent meedley meedely meedely type player...

Sent from my iPod.
 
I own a Mark IV "A" version.
My thoughts
Petruci uses a clean boost in front of his mark IV as do I (it's in his rack on the shelf that slides out).
The Real MArk IV has a bunch of gain tweaks on it that redically change the amount of gain. the Deep switch, the bright switch adn the switch on the back of the amp "harmonics/Mid gain"all add/subtract from the gain structure.
On my real mark IV I run it on harmonics with the deep pulled but the bright off, drive at 7 gain at 7 and I run a modified SD-1 in front of it with the level dimed and the gain off
here is a clip ( my "G" string was out of tune a bit at the beginning so my bends sound a little off until about a minute in (I tuned on the fly)
treble 7
mids 4 bass 2, presence 3 tweed/Class A channel out 3 master 3
this is thru a recto 2X12 cab with an SM57 in front of it.
 
Last edited:
On Mesa´s, you get more gain by turning up treble... And some with mid too..

The clip sounded right on IMHO...
 
[ soundcloud]your url here[/soundcloud]

be sure to remove the space after the first bracket. I had to do that otherwise you would see a the embedded link and not the way to do it.

I always post both ways that way mobile users can listen too. The embedded links do not show up on my iPod.
 
Last edited:
Sounds great... Where's your Univibe sound though? Huge part of Satch's tone on that tune.

kmanick said:
I own a Mark IV "A" version.
My thoughts
Petruci uses a clean boost in front of his mark IV as do I (it's in his rack on the shelf that slides out).
The Real MArk IV has a bunch of gain tweaks on it that redically change the amount of gain. the Deep switch, the bright switch adn the switch on the back of the amp "harmonics/Mid gain"all add/subtract from the gain structure.
On my real mark IV I run it on harmonics with the deep pulled but the bright off, drive at 7 gain at 7 and I run a modified SD-1 in front of it with the level dimed and the gain off
here is a clip ( my "G" string was out of tune a bit at the beginning so my bends sound a little off until about a minute in (I tuned on the fly)
treble 7
mids 4 bass 2, presence 3 tweed/Class A channel out 3 master 3
this is thru a recto 2X12 cab with an SM57 in front of it.

TrumbalandBKHDMarkIVmix by kmanick on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free

***EDIT how do you embed the Soundcloud player??
Click to expand...
 
shotgunn said:
Sounds great... Where's your Univibe sound though? Huge part of Satch's tone on that tune.
Click to expand...

:lol:lol
thanks!
I know, I have a "Univibe" setting on one of my Boss pedals that sounds pretty good (Robin Trower look out), I was just going for more of a "raw" sound
here. I actually find my 5150 II a lot easier to record than my Mark IV (hence one of the resons I know own an Axe II and am here in the first place) :)
 
Well I own botht the mark 4 and 5
In my opinion the 5 is alot better amp than the 4. The 4 never really had the gain i felt that it should, so i called mesa and they recomend to run a mxr micro amp in front of the amp. Channel 2 will actually get real flabby souding if ypu use to much bass.
 
Put a Full OD drive pedal in front of the amp with level and drive both near five. That will give you the little extra kick you are looking for.
 
I haven't had a chance to try it yet but I would try bumping the presence a lot. It usually has a big effect on the gain structure

Also what cab are you using?
 
The Mark IV has Lead Gain before the tone controls and Lead Drive after. I can't emphasize enough how much these 2 knobs impact everything about the gain sound, behavior, structure, ... on the lead channel. You might be able to play with the Input Trim and Boost on the Axe to change the gain on the Mark IV sim, but with the 2 gain controls the Mark IV had a lot of variety in the gain that's going to be tough to replicate.

On a real Mark IV you can turn the Gain down and Drive up, Gain up and drive down, or any combination and really change the distortion. I'd suggest putting a drive block in front and play with the levels of the drive block and the levels of the Gain, Input Trim, Boost and Master Vol on the amp block. Try combinations you woldn't normally use (drive block high & amp gain lower, etc). And see how it responds.

Also the Mark IV has a pretty versatile Presence control, the amp can go from fusion to Metallica by turning up the presence.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom