Is seamless X/Y switching with scenes possible when the amp changes entirely?

M

mtmartin71

Experienced
This question was buried in another thread of mine so pulling this front and center. From what I can tell, when using scenes to change the X/Y state of an amp and if the Y state is a completely different amp, there is a noticeable hiccup or delay in sound. My patch in question is a JCM 800 (X) paired to a JCM 2555 (Y). When using scenes that keep the amp the scene but turn on effects, that is smooth and seamless. When I want to go to the JCM 2555 as the lead sound, then there is a delay in the changeover...enough so that it would be noticeable live I think. Someone else with the MFC confirmed the same thing happens for him. Is this the nature of the beast in X/Y changing when it's a different amp model on the change?
 
aziz said:
Change from amp1 to amp2, then it's seamless.
Click to expand...

OK...that makes sense and I have the CPU left to do it that way. Do you know if this is the same issue in changing other effects/items i.e. the Delay block? Is X/Y only seamless when you retain the model on those or do I also need to add back my Delay 2? I use a slap delay and a 320ms analog delay. I'll play around with that but seems like X/Y is only effective for switching if retaining the model but changing the settings.
 
yek said:
You can have Delay X/Y set to different types.
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Hmmm...after further testing it appears to be the X/Y change that isn't working seamlessly for me...period. Even when I kept the delay and used X/Y, I was getting a quick zipper sound coming out of the analog delay back to the tape. I had dedicated amp blocks and that transition was fine. Then I created a 2nd delay and wasn't using any X/Y changes in my scenes and everything was smooth on the transitions. Very much the way I wanted it.

Did some further testing using a change from X/Y state of the same Plexi amp so no change this time at all in amp. Just different settings and the drive pedal coming on from the lead. I got the same hiccup in the change as before. It seems to me that the way the LF Jr and the X/Y changes are occurring do not work together properly. I'm assuming others of you out there are getting X/Y changes in your scenes to occur seamlessly? I know one other guy on another thread mentioned he was having this same issue with his MFC but that was in changing amps completely going from X to Y. Good news is the only things I want to change can be done just by having 2nd blocks but I see people talking about scenes as a means to have 4 options in each "rig" through X/Y states. Methinks this is related to the LF Jr and how I have it set up to interact but...the one guy who said his MFC is doing the same thing makes me wonder if it's on the AxeFX side.
 
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The amp block will mute on XY changes, even with identical X & Y settings. It's a fade out, fade in that takes about 70 ms total.
 
mtmartin71 said:
Is seamless X/Y switching with scenes possible when the amp changes entirely?
Click to expand...
In short: No.

On/off changes are seamless, any x/y change means to reload a new set of parameters into the block - this can`t be 100% seamless by design, right?! If you need 100% absolutely seamless switching you`ll have to avoid commands, which will (re)load parameter(changes). In other words: Avoid using X/Y -> use seperate blocks. That said: Amp1 + Amp2 have to be set in a parallel routing to avoid popping...
 
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Thanks guys. So what is the benefit of X/Y then? Is it mostly to get more rig options into one patch while saving resources? But...you can't change those parameters on the fly in a song unless you're willing to take a 70ms fade in/fade out penalty? Just curious. Now that I know how it works, I can set up the rigs accordingly. I have seen some people say they're using the X/Y parameter to do leads so sounds like they're find with the blip. To me, it's noticeable enough to avoid it but then again that was playing by myself without a band.
 
You can change x/y on the inactive amp when you are using the other amp. That way you'll get four sets of settings in one patch using scenes without the x/y fade in/out.

Scene 1:
Amp 1 x (active)
Amp 2 x (inactive)

Scene 2:
Amp 2 x (active)
Amp 1 y (inactive)

Scene 3:
Amp 1 y (active)
Amp 2 y (inactive)

Scene 4:
Amp 2 y (active)
Amp 1 (inactive)
 
sean.e said:
You can change x/y on the inactive amp when you are using the other amp. That way you'll get four sets of settings in one patch using scenes without the x/y fade in/out.

Scene 1:
Amp 1 x (active)
Amp 2 x (inactive)

Scene 2:
Amp 2 x (active)
Amp 1 y (inactive)

Scene 3:
Amp 1 y (active)
Amp 2 y (inactive)

Scene 4:
Amp 2 y (active)
Amp 1 (inactive)
Click to expand...

I still get a dropout when switching X/Y on the inactive amp. The Axe still has to load all of the other parameters from the X or Y state whether it's active or not. However, I believe it's less noticeable if your CPU use is lower.
 
RichHowe said:
I still get a dropout when switching X/Y on the inactive amp. The Axe still has to load all of the other parameters from the X or Y state whether it's active or not. However, I believe it's less noticeable if your CPU use is lower.
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I'm seeing a dropout from scene 1 to 2 with sean.e's example, but not scene 2 to 3. If you set amp 1 to X in scene 4 there will also be a gap from 3 to 4. It's like it waits for amp 1 to switch XY states before engaging amp 2, but not vice versa.
 
Bakerman said:
I'm seeing a dropout from scene 1 to 2 with sean.e's example, but not scene 2 to 3. If you set amp 1 to X in scene 4 there will also be a gap from 3 to 4. It's like it waits for amp 1 to switch XY states before engaging amp 2, but not vice versa.
Click to expand...

I didn't test sean.e's scenario, I'll have to try it. In my tests I was always getting a dropout when changing amp state from X to Y and vice versa but the dropout was much smaller when changing one amp state at a time compared to changing both at the same time. If I reduced my CPU usage, changing one amp at a time produced the smallest dropout. However, changing both amps at the same time meant I would only get 1 dropout when changing between 4 amps, although that one gap was larger than the 3 gaps I got when switching one amp at a time. My tests and results are here...

http://forum.fractalaudio.com/axe-f...io-gap-between-scenes-changes.html#post841949
 
I don't find changing between amp1 and amp2 'seamless'. Yes, the gap is shorter than changing between X/Y but you still can't step on a footswitch and hit a chord with confidence.
This is something I'm really struggling with in order to use it in a live situation well - as there are several scenarios where I need to go from very clean to very distorted instantly - to have the attack of the first note/chord stolen by a fade-in is frustrating in a band context.
 
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