Is it possible to mic FRFR cabs? The REAL test. (My Demo)

dsouza

dsouza

Experienced
It's been long touted on the forum that one can't or shouldn't record off an frfr speaker with a traditional mic.

I used my FAS AX8.

I used my Headrush 108 FRFR speaker.

In this case I recorded two partial demos with an sm57 mic placed 90% right angle to the speaker , 1 inch away.

The first demo is a Rock song demo, the second an ambient. Excuse the rusty playing... :)

The results in sound may differ with mic placement. For example, my wife says my sound is amazing in the room but on the recording sounds too base and muddy. The placement of the mic is crucial here. I have it right up against the speaker. I want to capture a full room sound so maybe a different mic altogether placed further away? I have an sm58 and a portable zoom recorder as well. I may try those next.

DEMO 1 : Rock sample, Recorded off HR108 using sm57


DEMO 2 : Ambient sample, Recorded off HR108 using sm57
 
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I used my AX8. Two Headrush 108's. An sm57 4 feet away.

I found the above recordings with the sm57 placed 1 inch in front of the HD108 can too base heavy and muddy.

Below you will find two similar recordings with the sm57 placed 4 feet in front of TWO HR108's center panned.

The first recording is a snippet of a rock song, the second a snippet of an ambient song.

Tell me which placement of the mic you like better? These ones, or the base heavy ones I posted initially up above.

I would love to get some feedback. Or additional advice, comments.

Here we go:

Rock song #1 -- Vertigo -- Snippet -- AX8 sm57 4 feet away center panned.


Ambient song #2 -- First time -- Snippet -- AX8 sm57, 4 feet away center panned.
 
I'm getting the feeling the sm57 placed 1 inch away from the 108 is too close, and placed 4 feet away from two 108's in the center is too far. Does anyone else feel the same? It's as if the former is too base heavy and muddy, the latter to sterile and trebly without enough gain. Perhaps I haven't found the mic placement sweetspot? I am going to try placing the sm57 mic 2 feet away from the 108's tommorrow and re-record.

I refuse the believe the problem is with my presets , the HR108's, or the AX8. Because it sounds fab in the room to my ears and everyone else listening to me play live here in my studio. So the problem is with recording or using the sm57 (Wrong choice of mic?) , or mic placement.

Any tips appreciated!
 
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The real question is why would you want to. Would you talk to someone over the phone if they were standing right next to you?

You're going from a digital full range signal to analog, through a power amp, through full range speakers, recording with a mic, back to analog signal, and then converted back to a digital signal through your interface. Cut out a whole lot of unnecessary steps and just record the original digital signal directly like warlockII said. It will be a whole lot easier and more accurate.
 
If you think about..

This is like putting a amp and cab in an isolation booth, carefully mic it up. Then go into the control room to dial it in and love how great it sounds through the monitors. Then mic the monitors and record that... ;):cool::p
 
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I already know how to record direct. That's the first way I tried. I am just being curious. :)

However, I was fascinated by this guitarist who demonstrated the use of mic'ing up two 108's in stereo with two "audio technica AT2020 cardiod" microphones placed 2 feet away.

Check his video out.




And this other guitarist who used an "old EV Cardinal cardiod" Mic on the HR108. He compared his signal to direct on the video. There was no difference. The mic was placed right on the cab!

Check his video out.



Why would these two BRIGHT guitarists mic up an frfr if it was a stupid thing to do?
 
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dsouza said:
I already know how to record direct. That's the first way I tried. I am just being curious. :)

However, I was fascinated by this guitarist who demonstrated the use of mic'ing up two 108's in stereo with two "audio technica AT2020 cardiod" microphones placed 2 feet away.

Check his video out.




And this other guitarist who used an "old EV Cardinal cardiod" Mic on the HR108. He compared his signal to direct on the video. There was no difference. The mic was placed right on the cab!

Check his video out.



Why would these two BRIGHT guitarists mic up an frfr if it was a stupid thing to do?
Click to expand...

Because they were making a demo of/for Headrush?
 
Okay. Today I will re-record the two song samples, both the rock sample and ambient sample direct and post the results here for comparison.

I already know direct will sound best as that's the first way I tried. But let's do it and put it in this thread for completeness. :)
 
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A rock sample, and an ambient sample recorded DIRECT off my AX8 into my Scarlett 2i2 into my pc laptop into Live10 daw.

I skipped the Headrush 108's this time round. Looks like the conclusion will be it's best to record direct AT LEAST compared to using my sm57.

But I thought I'd do a thread with a live demo of me playing to SHOW people the differences in sounds who are interested in learning about frfr vs direct recording and the AX8.

ROCK SONG SAMPLE 1:



AMBIENT SONG SAMPLE 2:

 
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Ole said:
Because they were making a demo of/for Headrush?
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If you look at the second video I posted above of the Iridium/HR demo the old grasshopper man clearly shows there is NO difference mic'ing the HR 108 and using direct. Watch the video closely and listen carefully and then tell me if you hear a difference.

Remember I was using an sm57, and he is using a completely different mic -- old EV Cardinal cardiod Mic on the HR108.
The question still begs WHY would one want to record off an frfr when they can just go direct? How do you record your audio at a LIVE show or gig so you can keep it for yourself? Rely on cellphones which are even crappier than real mics?
 
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GlennO said:
I think he explained that pretty clearly. He's trying to demonstrate what the FRFR sounds like. He's not trying to make a good recording of his amp.
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What I said to Ole in the post above.
 
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chris said:
if this is true, then there is no reason to mic Full Range speakers, since going direct is easier and there's NO difference.
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@chris
Just curious how would you get your friends , your wife/gf, etc to record you LIVE when playing through an FRFR speaker if there is no FOH in the venue? Not all venues have foh or sound engineers on site.

I would like to keep samples of my performances for future business propositions and referrals and put it up on my YT channel.
 
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dsouza said:
What if you want to record yourself LIVE and there is no FOH or PA guy to help you?
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Two ways.

At least two high quality full range mics placed out in the room capturing the PA system, the room, and the audience.

Or record the direct feeds from the mixer.

A mixture of both (time aligned) is what typical 'Live' recordings are. More of the direct sound than the mic'd, I would expect.
 
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Moke said:
Two ways.

At least two high quality full range mics placed out in the room capturing the PA system, the room, and the audience.

Or record the direct feeds from the mixer.

A mixture of both (time aligned) is what typical 'Live' recordings are. More of the direct sound than the mic'd, I would expect.
Click to expand...

@Moke
Excellent but LIVE people don't just want audio they want video footage.. I know I do for YT channel testomonials of my performances in action.

Would you recommend specific types of video cameras or camcorders to record or they don't do justice to live frfr speaker performance? Remember we're working with real life budgets.

I was hoping for a simpler all in one solution to record video and audio of myself performing live in the venue that would make both video and an frfr speaker system footage sound great.

I know a lot of musicians don't even record their live performances both in audio and video , which is sad.
 
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