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IRs created with reference mics?

Finaldo

Inspired
I've searched around a bit, but maybe not deeply enough. From what I see, the cab packs look like they're all created with a variety of popular mics... but are any of them created with a flat/reference mic?

I'm working on getting the amp-in-the-room sound... some of the IRs sound completely unusable to me, but I don't do a lot of recording. I've heard that tones that sound good in the mix don't typically sound good in isolation.

Are there any Ultra-Res IRs out there made with a flat mic, and maybe even created from a player's listening position?
 

Rex

Legend!
The wiki lists all the cabs abd tells you which are UltraRes, which were shot with a neutral mic, and which are far-field.

Some of the Cab Pack IRs are shot from the back of the cab, which can help you approach "amp-in-the-room."

None of them was captured from the player's position. IMO, that wouldn't be a very useful sound. I don't know of any commercial recordings that were miked that way.
 

RDH

Fractal Fanatic
I'd say the Jay Mitchell far fields would be the closest to listening position, There are several factory IR's and Redwire ,older OH that have Earthworks TC30 captures , but they probably aren't UR ! Many of us have chased that rabbit ,and concerning amp in the room, (not to come across as negative) You will be spending your time in a much better way adapting to using miked tones than chasing amp in room ! the only way you will find true amp in the room is with power amp and cab (actual amp in the room ) I don't believe you will ever capture it in an IR, on a recording or through an FR, nor hear it on a recording ? Recorded tones are all miked and processed to fit and sound good in a mix, often not so good isolated ! If you were to somehow actually capture a true amp in the room track you wouldn't like it in a mix !
 

Finaldo

Inspired
I have a reference mic. I haven't even tried it with guitar cabs. Those mics capture the room.
Any mic will do that if the sample length is long enough, right?

have you heard any recordings of a guitar cab using a flat mic? i'd be curious to hear that.
I don't want an IR like that for use on a recording, I just want it for my own enjoyment while I'm in my living room, playing through the Axe-Fx into a powered monitor. To get the amp-in-the-room sound, I am guessing (and that's a wild guess!) that you'd need to use a flat mic, with an IR captured from the listener's position, so that the IR is capturing what you as the player is hearing. Then, popping that IR into the Axe-Fx, your FRFR speaker would play back to you something that should sound really close to what your real cab was doing. Do I have the wrong idea, here?

The wiki lists all the cabs abd tells you which are UltraRes, which were shot with a neutral mic, and which are far-field.
Some of the Cab Pack IRs are shot from the back of the cab, which can help you approach "amp-in-the-room."
None of them was captured from the player's position. IMO, that wouldn't be a very useful sound. I don't know of any commercial recordings that were miked that way.
I think the Axe-Fx Standard started off with IRs captured using the Earthworks mic so that you could add in whichever mic sim you preferred in the cab block. Lots of the IRs that I've seen recently are made with popular mics, so maybe somewhere along the line the direction shifted to not using the mic emulation in the cab block? I've been away from guitar (and the Axe-Fx) for a while, and I'm just starting to get back into it. I'm playing a bit of catch-up, here. :)

I'd say the Jay Mitchell far fields would be the closest to listening position, There are several factory IR's and Redwire ,older OH that have Earthworks TC30 captures , but they probably aren't UR ! Many of us have chased that rabbit ,and concerning amp in the room, (not to come across as negative) You will be spending your time in a much better way adapting to using miked tones than chasing amp in room ! the only way you will find true amp in the room is with power amp and cab (actual amp in the room ) I don't believe you will ever capture it in an IR, on a recording or through an FR, nor hear it on a recording ? Recorded tones are all miked and processed to fit and sound good in a mix, often not so good isolated ! If you were to somehow actually capture a true amp in the room track you wouldn't like it in a mix !
I tried Jay's FF IRs a long time ago, and they sounded so strange to me. If that's what happens when you capture an IR that way, I guess I do have the wrong idea. I have a lot to learn to make one of those tones sound like my amp does. I have messed around with using the graphic EQ block and lowering 125hz and 500hz a bit, which seems to help... but with overdriven stuff, there's a weird honky/boxy sound to it that makes it sound like an emulator, to me; that's just the association I've made, there's no validity to it. :) I've heard tons of recordings made with the Axe-Fx that sound amazing, so I know the problem is me and not the Axe-Fx. I'm hoping to learn a bit more about sound engineering and IRs themselves, and hopefully I can start getting some of those jaw-dropping tones I've heard from everyone else. :)
 

barhrecords

Axe-Master
The crux of it is IR's captured in the near field are not going to sound like what the player typically hears with a cab on the floor.

The mic's used often add color on purpose. The reference mic is not a bad idea in and of itself, but the "amp in room" is about your ears not being in the near field position.

In the far field, where your ears typically are, the space / room you are in has a greater affect and produces some of the "amp in the room" sensation.

The skill required to capture a far field IR without boundary reflections + the skill to dial in the modeler to use such an IR to reproduce the amp in the room effect (and the monitors you are using) is mighty :)

All is not lost. With the Fractal, get a guitar cab and decent power amp. Turn off cabinet modeling or construct your presets to output without a cab block. Then the amp in the room sensation is attainable by mere mortals :)
 
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