Input Clipping Thread

jaycal6 said:
I thought this setting didn't affect gain in presets
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sprint said:
it doesn't
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MackieFX said:
Just tried my Dingwall bass and I lost a LOT of gain in my bass presets. will have to re-do em.
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Unfortunately, it will once you get below 5% or above 95%. But not by much. The new 'Input 1 Gain' parameter in that same 'Input Levels' tab, can be used to globally increase, or decrease the level of your guitar entering the grid to make up for any loss or increase of gain caused by extreme 'Input 1 Instrument' settings.


EDIT... (mostly) Misinformation on my part. See post #271 below for test results.
 
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Rex said:
According to a recent post by @FractalAudio, you can now set it anywhere in its range without affecting gain.
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So many threads to read, I must have missed that. That's good to know.

I did some searching, but haven't found that post yet. Anyone know where it is?
 
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Moke said:
Unfortunately, it will once you get below 5% or above 95%. But not by much. The new 'Input 1 Gain' parameter in that same 'Input Levels' tab, can be used to globally increase, or decrease the level of your guitar entering the grid to make up for any loss or increase of gain caused by extreme 'Input 1 Instrument' settings.
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Im on 7.5% and the gain is definitely affected with this preset
 
Moke said:
So many threads to read, I must have missed that. That's good to know.

I did some searching, but haven't found that post yet. Anyone know where it is?
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I don't recall the exact post, but I remember it was a response to one of the "Why do I have to set it so low?" posts, and Cliff stated that you can go as low as the range will allow without affecting levels.
 
MackieFX said:
Im on 7.5% and the gain is definitely affected with this preset
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I just did a test using the sine wave from the Synth block routed only to Output 4. Then a TS cable from Output 4 to Input 1. Routed Input 1 to Output 1. Set the Synth output so that Output 1 is right at the '0' line on it's VU meter.

TEST 1... Moved the 'Input 1 / Instrument' parameter in the 'Input' tab of the 'I/O' menu from '0.0%' to '100.0% on the hardware, while observing the levels in the Output 1 block. The level stayed within '0.1 dB'. As a mater of fact, the '0.1' difference was an increase that occurred in the lowest few percent.

TEST 2... I setup the Synth level much higher so that the Input 1 clip indicator would come on at around 50% (default). As I proceeded past that clip point, there was a drop in the level exiting the Input 1 block, as shown on the Output 1 block VU meter. Likely caused by the compression caused by the clipping of the wave form entering the A/D converter.

POSSIBLE CONCLUSION?... If you were previously clipping harder than you should have been. Your signal was likely being clipped/compressed, reducing your actual level and dynamic range. The new clip indicator brought this to your (and likely many others) attention. After reducing the parameter till you are actually no longer clipping, you are entering the grid at a lower level.

Those that were not (or barely) clipping before the addition of the clip indicator should not be experiencing any change in 'gain'.
 
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Moke said:
So many threads to read, I must have missed that. That's good to know.

I did some searching, but haven't found that post yet. Anyone know where it is?
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FractalAudio said:
It doesn't "blow up the input". There's nothing fundamentally wrong with setting it to 8%. You can set is as low as 0% with no detrimental effect.
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I've assumed that Cliff means the gain doesn't change at 0%, but that's not necessarily what no detrimental effect means, because of course that's another part of this that contradicts the manual (in addition to tickling the red described as indicating 6 dB from clipping).
 
Moke said:
I just did a test using the sine wave from the Synth block routed only to Output 4. Then a TS cable from Output 4 to Input 1. Routed Input 1 to Output 1. Set the Synth output so that Output 1 is right at the '0' line on it's VU meter.

TEST 1... Moved the 'Input 1 / Instrument' parameter in the 'Input' tab of the 'I/O' menu from '0.0%' to '100.0% on the hardware, while observing the levels in the Output 1 block. The level stayed within '0.1 dB'. As a mater of fact, the '0.1' difference was an increase that occurred in the lowest few percent.

TEST 2... I setup the Synth level much higher so that the Input 1 clip indicator would come on at around 50% (default). As I proceeded past that clip point, there was a drop in the level exiting the Input 1 block, as shown on the Output 1 block VU meter. Likely caused by the compression caused by the clipping of the wave form entering the A/D converter.

POSSIBLE CONCLUSION?... If you were previously clipping harder than you should have been. You signal was likely being clipped/compressed reducing your actual level and dynamic range. The new clip indicator brought this to your (and likely many others) attention. After reducing the parameter till you are actually no longer clipping, you are entering the grid at a lower level.

Those that were not (or barely) clipping before the addition of the clip indicator should not be experiencing any change in 'gain'.
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Yeah depending on the pickups and playing technique, electric guitar input can be very dynamic with a big transient attack spike and a much lower gradual decay. If folks were consistently clipping the input it could have a noticeable impact on their dynamics due to the hard limiting effect the clipping has on peaks of the signal.
 
First I'll say that I very much appreciate the addition of this input clip warning. I've noticed it before on an ultra clean 80's studio-style preset, but couldn't figure out what was going on because nothing appeared to be clipping.

That said, this enhancement has made it clear that very little of the input level range was ever actually usable. Seems like a future enhancement should be re-scaling the parameter. If people are needing to set this in single digits to avoid clipping, this question is going to just keep coming up.
 
Mine is set to 40 % with Suhr Aldrich pickups, Liquifire/crunch lab set and Zexcoil Signature set, no input clip warnings with my playing style 👍
 
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