Inherent hiss in amps?

[Caleb Hart]

I'm asking in regards to the Brit 800, and comparing with the Friedman 2018 model. Both amps have similar character, but the Friedman has more gain with less background hiss.
I've found that the hiss is mainly caused by the 'Bright Switch' being engaged. I've been using the Brit 800 with it turned off and just used EQ to bring back the highs I want, but there is still more hiss than the Friedman 2018 with similar tone settings. Using noise gates or EQ'ing out certain frequencies are non-solutions to the main problem.
I prefer the 'feel' of the Brit 800 as well it's ability to clean up, but I like the low noise floor of the Friedman.
Is this characteristic something that is this inherent to the amp design itself and the components that make it? Could the amp models be revised to remove or reduce this, or is it just how these amps are in reality?

 

[maxdown]

I'm guessing it must be your personal settings because just using the Factory presets as a benchmark I actually find it to be the opposite - the Friedman 2018 has more hiss than the Brit 800 - even with the Bright Switch engaged on the 800 (the factory default has it turned off).

I think the Factory settings on the Brit 800 are pretty much set to what I'd expect as the sweet spot for that amp in real life for a gainy setting (at least at low volumes - at loud stage level I'd probably be rolling off some more treble - or increasing MV to compress the highs more). Increasing the input gain on it over 7 makes it quite hard to balance out. Perhaps play with the GEQ in the amp block or with a standalone EQ block either pre or post amp block. But I'd also say the 800 is one of those amps that responds well to having a good base crunch tone which can clean up with guitar volume and then a drive pedal to boost and shape it for solos etc

 

[lqdsnddist]

You really can’t have accurate modeling but leave out certain things you don’t like, as then it’s no longer an accurate model.

High gain amps are noisy.

Crank a real JCM 800 up and listen to how noisy it is, can hardly be in the same room with it lol.

Only thing with digital models is we can crank the controls to really high settings, but maintain low output levels, so then we think there is too much noise over ambient levels in the room.

 

[Caleb Hart]

I'm guessing it must be your personal settings because just using the Factory presets as a benchmark I actually find it to be the opposite - the Friedman 2018 has more hiss than the Brit 800 - even with the Bright Switch engaged on the 800 (the factory default has it turned off).

I think the Factory settings on the Brit 800 are pretty much set to what I'd expect as the sweet spot for that amp in real life for a gainy setting (at least at low volumes - at loud stage level I'd probably be rolling off some more treble - or increasing MV to compress the highs more). Increasing the input gain on it over 7 makes it quite hard to balance out. Perhaps play with the GEQ in the amp block or with a standalone EQ block either pre or post amp block. But I'd also say the 800 is one of those amps that responds well to having a good base crunch tone which can clean up with guitar volume and then a drive pedal to boost and shape it for solos etc

The bright switch on the Brit 800 amp is on by default for me on the AX8, the Friedman is default off (FW 10.00). The general amp settings are the same when you switch between the two using the amp block. I don't increase the preamp gain past 7, or the MV gain past 6. Like I said in my first post, EQ doesn't solve the original problem.

But I'd also say the 800 is one of those amps that responds well to having a good base crunch tone which can clean up with guitar volume and then a drive pedal to boost and shape it for solos etc

That's exactly what I do :^)

 

[Caleb Hart]

You really can’t have accurate modeling but leave out certain things you don’t like, as then it’s no longer an accurate model.

High gain amps are noisy.

Crank a real JCM 800 up and listen to how noisy it is, can hardly be in the same room with it lol.

Only thing with digital models is we can crank the controls to really high settings, but maintain low output levels, so then we think there is too much noise over ambient levels in the room.

Yes, that is what I'm curious about. The digital model may actually be accurate to the real amp, even down to the flaws in the circuitry. Would the Friedman amp be considered a 'superior' design in that it achieves a similar sound, but with more gain and less noise? Or maybe it was modelled differently?

 

[Caleb Hart]

Alright, I've just read the 'amp modeling progress' page on the wiki (can't post links yet) and it seems that the amps are indeed modelled accurately, flaws and all. It would be interesting if we could design and create modified amp models with improved circuitry without influencing it's original character and tone. But then again that might not be possible at all.