Im sure im kicking a dead horse here...

[State of Epicicity]

What do you think are the reasons for the difference?

If the preset / FW / globals are the same and you are
listening to the clip thru the same monitoring you play thru, imo, different guitar / hands is most probable. Just because 2 guitars are similar with hot pups does not mean they will necessarily sound close to the same thru the same modeller / preset. Add hands to that and the difference can be even larger.

But as above, assuming no p.p. and the same FW / globals, if we had the DI and Axfx preset to match that clip, we could 100% prove guitar/hands is the difference or not. Without such evidence, we'll never know for sure - we could debate other possibilities till the cows come home without resolution despite the most obvious answer (the one many frustrated tone seekers don't seem to like to hear for some reason) in plain view: guitar / hands.

This could be a situation where maybe the preset creator is going into an interface first then sending a signal significantly hotter than what plugging the guitar directly to Input 1 on the Axe-FX III would give you. That's my genuine guess. It's either that or there are two versions of the Axe-FX III, the Balls Edition and the Eunic Edition haha. I completely understand about the differences in guitars / pickups / players, etc. You're talking to a guy who spends days every year going through probably about fifty different picks in my collection (probably more than that) making sure I'm still using the one with the best tone! I hear significant differences when you change pickup height, hell, when you balance output by raising / lowering screws on a coil of a humbucker. I hear the difference and cables and choose the one with the right tone for me, the right load on my pickups, really. I totally get it. But this phenmenon goes beyond that. If you look at my thread, I post my DI compared to Leon's, and it's like they were recorded with two machines, which, if you didn't give me any other information, I would be sure was the case. I do know the difference in tone from output levels too. You just can't approach these tones we're talking about if you don't have enough input gain. Yes, the tones won't be the same because of the natural differences between guitar / player, etc, but you should still remotely be in the ballpark, not totally and completely outside of it.

If you get a chance, I'm curious how this preset works with your guitar.

I don't mean to argue this with endless zeal, truly. I just didn't want Tone Ranger to think he was going crazy, because that's how I felt until all these people confirmed that their DI tracks look like mine. And truly, the fact that Brett Kingman's presets sound dead on with my guitars brings it home. To clarify, I don't mean they sound exactly the same, but the ballpark of gain levels is perfect. If I play my superstrat and he's playing some superstrat in his videos, I can't even hear a difference. If he plays a tele and I play my superstrat, I hear a big difference, but only in character, not in massive massive differences in input signal level, you know? I'm just saying I totally hear a specific phenomenon with some clips, and I don't know any other way to explain it other than massively higher input signals, which tells me inadvertent juicing of the input signal from an interface. I don't know, but that's my theory, for what it's worth!

 

[State of Epicicity]

What do you think are the reasons for the difference?

If the preset / FW / globals are the same and you are
listening to the clip thru the same monitoring you play thru, imo, different guitar / hands is most probable. Just because 2 guitars are similar with hot pups does not mean they will necessarily sound close to the same thru the same modeller / preset. Add hands to that and the difference can be even larger.

But as above, assuming no p.p. and the same FW / globals, if we had the DI and Axfx preset to match that clip, we could 100% prove guitar/hands is the difference or not. Without such evidence, we'll never know for sure - we could debate other possibilities till the cows come home without resolution despite the most obvious answer (the one many frustrated tone seekers don't seem to like to hear for some reason) in plain view: guitar / hands.

One more thing on your point: I know first hand how two very different guitars can hit a high gain amp too, and how one can have no balls where the other sounds like a flute, but that's not what I'm hearing. With my analog rig I had a Washburn P3, essentially their take on a Les Paul, and a Wasburn Steve Salas, which was basically a Dinky with a Floyd. The P3 weighed about 80 lbs but sounded like the hammer of the gods, but the Steve Salas, no matter what pickups I put in it, sounded like a can of bees. There was nothing but the most beautiful low mids with the P3 with smooth and warm highs, just everything I'd want in a tone. Although those two guitars sounded like different worlds, you could always hear a similar ballpark of gain levels though. The difference I hear in these clips is like hearing one guitar with the volume knob down to 2 to maybe 5. Just my two cents.

 

[ToneRanger]

I ll be really curious to have your feedback after you try my presets .
Because in 5 years and after hundreds of customers I never had that type of feedback .(finger crossed)
Maybe the thing is that I don’t cheat in my demos , no post production etc

Then as some people said, they may be small difference in gain because of the output of the pickups . And also playing the songs well is most of the tone too.
But I agree that it cannot be night and day . I read that many time and I don’t know what they are selling … (without pointing no one hm)

I don’t use headphones at all, and my presets are not done for that. I always hate the tone in the headphones

My dream theater preset is spot on to me .

Also it is nice to privately message the concerned seller, if he is cool he will modify the preset to your needs

Thanks for letting me try your preset. Im not sure which Dimarzio you were using in the video, but i have an Ibanez Rg1570 with a Tone Zone. It was 95% there. Subtle differences. That as well as you are clearly a better player than me.

 

[My name is mud]

Thanks for letting me try your preset. Im not sure which Dimarzio you were using in the video, but i have an Ibanez Rg1570 with a Tone Zone. It was 95% there. Subtle differences. That as well as you are clearly a better player than me.

Glad to read that
If it is The video with the jp7, it has a di marzio crunch lab
Thank you for the rest !

 

[oacikgoz]

In general patches using tone match blocks sound like crap with my set up, I avoid them.

 

[sprint]

This could be a situation where maybe the preset creator is going into an interface first then sending a signal significantly hotter than what plugging the guitar directly to Input 1 on the Axe-FX III would give you. That's my genuine guess. It's either that or there are two versions of the Axe-FX III, the Balls Edition and the Eunic Edition haha. I completely understand about the differences in guitars / pickups / players, etc. You're talking to a guy who spends days every year going through probably about fifty different picks in my collection (probably more than that) making sure I'm still using the one with the best tone! I hear significant differences when you change pickup height, hell, when you balance output by raising / lowering screws on a coil of a humbucker. I hear the difference and cables and choose the one with the right tone for me, the right load on my pickups, really. I totally get it. But this phenmenon goes beyond that. If you look at my thread, I post my DI compared to Leon's, and it's like they were recorded with two machines, which, if you didn't give me any other information, I would be sure was the case. I do know the difference in tone from output levels too. You just can't approach these tones we're talking about if you don't have enough input gain. Yes, the tones won't be the same because of the natural differences between guitar / player, etc, but you should still remotely be in the ballpark, not totally and completely outside of it.

If you get a chance, I'm curious how this preset works with your guitar.

I don't mean to argue this with endless zeal, truly. I just didn't want Tone Ranger to think he was going crazy, because that's how I felt until all these people confirmed that their DI tracks look like mine. And truly, the fact that Brett Kingman's presets sound dead on with my guitars brings it home. To clarify, I don't mean they sound exactly the same, but the ballpark of gain levels is perfect. If I play my superstrat and he's playing some superstrat in his videos, I can't even hear a difference. If he plays a tele and I play my superstrat, I hear a big difference, but only in character, not in massive massive differences in input signal level, you know? I'm just saying I totally hear a specific phenomenon with some clips, and I don't know any other way to explain it other than massively higher input signals, which tells me inadvertent juicing of the input signal from an interface. I don't know, but that's my theory, for what it's worth!

Tried the preset (scene1) you attached above with my hottest guitar (Carvin DC127 with C22B/J Pups). Below is a sample output and DI. Hard to compare to the mixed track in the vid but seems my tone is in the ballpark despite my poor playing (apologies). So, agreed, if yours is waay off, there must be something else happening.

Agreed, juicing the front end is another possible reason for differences other than guitar / hands. The list of realistic possibilities we've noted so far if working thru a confirmed identical preset and monitoring output clips thru the same FR+Room as playing thru/in is:

• Tone provider added pre-processing (ie the provider juiced input via an interface, some sort of oddball instrument cable ...).
• Tone provider added Post processing.
• Globals Differences (ie an Input Gain difference or global EQ on).
• Firmware differences.
• Guitar / Hands.

Not that many possibilities really. I emphasize the DI test because its easy to do if the tone provider is open to providing it, and it immediately resolves the whole question if output matches, or, if output does not match, points the user to further investigate the other items on the list with the tone provider. Tone provider participation is key - without it, imo, it's almost futile to try and nail down and one is probably better off spending the time to get closer dialling in by ear and with whatever knowledge is available (posting on forums looking for an answer to exactly why there's a difference isn't likely going to yield much without tone provider participation).

I'd say more remote / implausible reasons are things like:

• Failed hardware (there's just too many of these type threads for me to believe failed hardware in most cases).
• "two versions of Axefx" like you mention above, that we are unaware of (again, I have a really hard time believing this to be a possibility - sounds a bit conspiracy theorizing to me since, if Fractal were to have done this without users' knowledge, there'd likely be significant backlash at the revelation - I can't l see them doing it, at least not intentionally, and unintentionally would seem to be a quite a wierd circumstance).

For shits and giggles, here also is LT's provided DI (details of guitar used here) re-amped through this preset:

 

[ToneRanger]

Glad to read that
If it is The video with the jp7, it has a di marzio crunch lab
Thank you for the rest !

It was the Octavarium video with the Strat. Ill look up the other

 

[My name is mud]

It was the Octavarium video with the Strat. Ill look up the other

Fast track 2 in this one (if I remember )

 

[State of Epicicity]

Tried the preset (scene1) you attached above with my hottest guitar (Carvin DC127 with C22B/J Pups). Below is a sample output and DI. Hard to compare to the mixed track in the vid but seems my tone is in the ballpark despite my poor playing (apologies). So, agreed, if yours is waay off, there must be something else happening.

Agreed, juicing the front end is another possible reason for differences other than guitar / hands. The list of realistic possibilities we've noted so far if working thru a confirmed identical preset and monitoring output clips thru the same FR+Room as playing thru/in is:

• Tone provider added pre-processing (ie the provider juiced input via an interface, some sort of oddball instrument cable ...).
• Tone provider added Post processing.
• Globals Differences (ie an Input Gain difference or global EQ on).
• Firmware differences.
• Guitar / Hands.

Not that many possibilities really. I emphasize the DI test because its easy to do if the tone provider is open to providing it, and it immediately resolves the whole question if output matches, or, if output does not match, points the user to further investigate the other items on the list with the tone provider. Tone provider participation is key - without it, imo, it's almost futile to try and nail down and one is probably better off spending the time to get closer dialling in by ear and with whatever knowledge is available (posting on forums looking for an answer to exactly why there's a difference isn't likely going to yield much without tone provider participation).

I'd say more remote / implausible reasons are things like:

• Failed hardware (there's just too many of these type threads for me to believe failed hardware in most cases).
• "two versions of Axefx" like you mention above, that we are unaware of (again, I have a really hard time believing this to be a possibility - sounds a bit conspiracy theorizing to me since, if Fractal were to have done this without users' knowledge, there'd likely be significant backlash at the revelation - I can't l see them doing it, at least not intentionally, and unintentionally would seem to be a quite a wierd circumstance).

For shits and giggles, here also is LT's provided DI (details of guitar used here) re-amped through this preset:

Wow, thanks for recording that! Your recording does not sound in the ballpark to me. It sounds very much underpowered to my ears. This is about the result I got playing through it. Your recording sounds like a guitar with the volume rolled back significantly. I've read your posts for years now, but I have no idea what kinds of tones you play, apologies! But if you're not used to metal tones, I can understand feeling like your guitar was in the ballpark!

And I was just being a smartass about there being two versions of the Axe-FX III; I don't think that's the case haha. And I did think for a time maybe there was a problem physically with Input 1 on the front of my Axe-FX III, but all the inputs on the back sounded the same! I've always wondered about this, but I'm not worried about it any more. I found many videos of players with the real world amps and found those very much to match the gain levels in the Fractal firmware; that was really the final confirmation I needed!

Thanks so much again for recording!

 

[sprint]

This is about the result I got playing through it. Your recording sounds like a guitar with the volume rolled back significantly. I've read your posts for years now, but I have no idea what kinds of tones you play

Shows how much I know about metal beyond Black Sabbath (which is probably more doom than metal). Ya, I tend toward rock tones so that preset feels like substantial gain to me. "Modern" (mid 80s+) metal tends to give me a headache - I'm only a fan of the Metallica sellout (Black) album

 

[State of Epicicity]

Shows how much I know about metal beyond Black Sabbath (which is probably more doom than metal). Ya, I tend toward rock tones so that preset feels like substantial gain to me. "Modern" (mid 80s+) metal tends to give me a headache - I'm only a fan of the Metallica sellout (Black) album

Haha! I'm not here to Black-Album-shame anyone.

I think the big tests for most metal tones are simply to palm mute power chords and play low single notes, for each testing the weight, clarity, pick attack, chunk, and mid character. This is my approach, anyway. You can hear in Leon's DI track where he's doing some light palm muting, and it still sounds pretty gnarly and awesome. The studio version of this cover was recorded during the ... And Justice For All sessions, and I think a good comparison involving power chords and palm muting with the drums in tacet would be to listen to the beginning of Blackened. After the backwards intro, you'll hear the main theme of the song kick in with just the guitar. That's a great example of the behavior of this tone, where single note and power cord palm mutes are chunky, deep, and gnarly. If you played that riff feeding an underpowered signal to this preset, you'd hear much of the same frequency spectrum, which is what I think you're responding to, but you'd lose the power in the palm muting, which is where the character lays bare. Just two more cents to the pile.

 

[lauke-lux]

Pups are 90% of your electric guitar sound image. Add the rest : instrument, art of playing, string gauge, intention, level, picks; headphone/direct sound and there are 120 combinations to not sound identical as a soundclip of a particular patch. Personally I couldn't care less...

 

[ToneRanger]

Pups are 90% of your electric guitar sound image. Add the rest : instrument, art of playing, string gauge, intention, level, picks; headphone/direct sound and there are 120 combinations to not sound identical as a soundclip of a particular patch. Personally I couldn't care less...

I took out the Tone Zone and replaced it with a Duncan Custom. That definitely helped.