I'm concerned that updates are getting a bit out of control

I had a planters wart removed from my boot-->ass foot this morning. It's causing a lot of pain, so while I do have the sudden urge to digitally chode punch some folks, I think I'll just show myself the door instead.
 
I made this comment in a different thread. The lack of release note in my opinion was strategic. The forum of full of people who are very grateful as well is people who always want more and are forever starved for information that they analyze on a critical level at all times. I bet Cliff just wanted people to experience the update with their hands and ears not there eyes and intellectual analysis.

Things go to the Beta team before they get to us. The forum usually last less then 48 hrs after a release before we start seeing "what's next" threads
 
A well reasoned and sensible reply - thank you.

I understand and think I agree, perhaps I'm just not used to Betas being thrown around and tested in a public forum, on other products I own Beta testing is done by invitation and revisions and correspondence is done away from the public eyes in a private forum. As many have said, I can choose to ignore beta releases, and I do, I only update with the official releases.

I'm also surprised at the speed of developments, first the buzz is 'dephase' then it's 'Quantum'....'dephase isn't even officially released yet! Perhaps my brain is a little too slow to keep up.

When people ask about what on earth the source of my killer tone is, one of the first things that I tell them is:
#1: This is not your typical digital product that can clone "snapshots of an amp's behavior". It feels and behaves like a real tube amp with all of the nuanced dynamics, and "in between tones".
#2: The guy who created this thing is OBSESSED with continually improving it, and does so through FREE firmware updates without charging the user a penny for them.

For me the recent "knee jerk reaction, frantic developments" fully support both of the above statements. I love Cliff's obsession and I do think that there is a clear direction here vs. what you stated as "random developments". DePhase and Quantum both enhanced the existing architecture, rather than changing anything from the user experience's point of view. If FAS went from only modeling Rectos to only Fenders to dumping all of that and now switching to Boutique only, then yes you could clearly state it as random and frantic. As a matter of fact, for me the recent updates, starting with FW19Beta, have been the smoothest transitions, and also the most rewarding.

Here's what may have ruffled so many feathers:
If I'm reading your post correctly, and you only update with official releases, then you clearly haven't first hand experienced any of the developments that you deemed as knee jerk and random. I agree that going with "official only" is a completely valid way of going about things. I also agree that constructive criticism is a healthy thing, but if you choose to CRITICIZE, then you have to be willing to EXPERIENCE. It's sort of like me saying: "I hate Cambodian food" without ever having tried it. I'm entitled to my opinion about Cambodian food, as long as I'm willing to taste it first hand.
Just my 2c...
 
I agree but, that's the way this company works. On one hand it's really cool to even get the firmware upgrades, and then to be able to get beta versions to try and test out, way cool. The simple solution is to not use the beta firmware and wait for more stable updates. Typically in the betas, there are a few little bugs to be worked out. Obviously you can sit back and say hey, fw 19 was only released a short time ago, no official release of fw 20, and now it's a whole new quantum thing? What about G3'n all the other amps and drives etc...? When is the Axe going to include a cup holder I've been asking for in the wish list?!!!!
The other thing thing you are probably noticing is a few people like to jump your case just because you had some negative feedback.
Just roll with it. You have the best modeler there is. That Yamaha thing, blah! No contest! Never heard a helix yet but, it seems overpriced and just a lite version of what you all ready have. The Axe does so much more than just modeling. Great FX that can used in a lot of different ways for a lot of different things other than guitar.
 
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KIDS! STOP IT! NOW!

The whole point of a beta release is being lost here, in all these petty bickerings about nothing.

Cliff and crew came up with what might be some better ideas; they developed these to a nearly "complete" state, and put them out there, for those who are willing to take a chance, to try, and comment on. They are hanging their underwear out on the line, for the neighbors to see. There may be glitches that weren't considered. There may be things that some like better, and some worse. They are asking for our input - our cooperation. They are bringing us onto the team, to allow us to help them help us.

This isn't something they have to do. They do not make a huge bottom line profit by offering these updates and betas for our input or use. They do not discontinue product lines, and install planned obsolescence into their rigs, so you can only use them if you buy the latest and greatest widgets. They offer them FREELY - at no additional cost - to ANYBODY, including us common folks. To ALL of us - not just a select team of beta testers. It's awesome that they would expose themselves like that, considering that there may still be things that need addressed.

They have never said "This is it, take it or leave it; this is how it is, and how it will be. " If ANY of us, from new to experienced, offers constructive critique or suggestions, it's considered, and may be incorporated into a future upgrade. It's not a closed loop, of incestuous, inbred form of monopoly it's an open discussion of what works, and what doesn't.

Betas, or upgrades, have NEVER been a requirement to continue using the box. No one is forced to upgrade, to be able to keep the box at tip-top status. If you like it like it is; stay where you are - no problem for you, and none for others. If you don't like upgrades, that's cool with me; no skin off my nose. I'm willing to bet you sound awesome already - upgrade or not. Just enjoy the music however you can. If trying to stay current is not something that floats your boat, that's awesome. Some of the best tones ever are from gear that was made many moons ago, and it could be that's the case with some of the upgrades, as well. I prefer to keep an open mind, and to at least check them out; sometimes I stick with them, sometimes I go back, and wait for something else.

The betas are NEVER represented as being a completed product. There may be glitches, and that's made exceedingly clear. They're intended to be used by folks who have the experience and wherewithal to bail themselves out, if they get int too deep, or at least know how to ask questions, if they find themselves in quick-sand. That's the whole point of the betas, and this forum - that we shine a light into the darkest corners of the software/firmware, and find any potential issues that would keep this from being the greatest currently available. If we find something that doesn't seem right, we report it to those with the ability to fix it, and the pros step in, and take over, and soon we will have another update. That's how the process works. The whole point is for the largest group of real users possible, try the stuff in real world conditions, and report back. WE are the laboratory techs who are documenting and reporting our findings to the mad scientists, so they can fix things, as only they can. And then we get the benefit of enjoying the finished product, when it's fixed...... I say this again, AT NO ADDITIONAL COST.

I'm not going to be a bossy so-and-so, and demand how anyone is to conduct themselves on the forum, but please - let's keep focused here, and use the betas for what they are intended for. If you're a willing participant in testing things out, jump in with both feet, try as much as you can, and report back with your findings, so incongruities can be addressed. If you're a casual user, or pro, for that matter, and do not want the inconvenience that may occur using a beta software, I'd recommend holding off on updating. If you just want to have the latest and greatest, and still want to check out a beta format, be patient, and understand that there is a whole army of folks working on checking out every possible contingency, in the hopes of the end result being better than the initial offering. If you discover something, let everyone, or at least Fractal Audio, know. Stuff happens, and they'll probably appreciate your feedback, if it's offered constructively. If you discover something, or read about something, that's not working out right, it's not an automatic excuse to pig-pile. That's why we have betas and forums, so these things can be worked out. Be an active participant, and work for the greater good. YOU are the one who benefits in the end.
 
Well and wise spoken api4u! :ugeek

But I also understand the view of the thread owner.....(personally I think "concerned" is the wrong word here).

Don't fight, play music!

Cheers
P
 
Sheesh - I'll give you one more reply then I'm out.

First - I dont give a flying fuck whether you've been to Australia or not ... and though I do appreciate my friends and others who served (in that conflict) it's irrelevant to this conversation.
Secondly, I have no idea why you are jumping on me for suggesting that perhaps the OP wasn't knocking Cliff - Perhaps you also misunderstand my post as well - maybe you're wrong - what does it matter?
Thirdly - Maybe I'm wrong - What does it matter?
Fourthly - Cliff has balls and can take posts that express someones opinion - even when it's not yours.
Fifth - If you re-read the _all_ the words in the OP, you'll see the language used isn't quite as clear cut as your 1,2,3 above. If it was that clear cut - I would agree with you. The op puts thouse 3 points as questions, not statement of fact.

Pauly

In short - It's ok... calm down... It doesn't matter if the Op has concerns that they can alleviate by not loading a beta.

[Edit] - Wow - I just read your last post... now you're telling me what I think? Ok I'll leave you to it.

Good.....................
 
The truth is nobody knows what Cliff's reason for every update is. He obviously has always updated things constantly from the beginning, so it's just what he does. That is just fact...

That doesn't mean Cliff is totally immune to kneejerk reactions when other gear comes along(kemper for example) which suddenly gets a lot of positive attention. He is obviously extremely competitive/driven. The Axe users have benefitted from this for sure & will continue to.....

Sales/marketing, like it or not, always ends up being the bottom line for a company......even if it doesn't seem to start off that way. It's called competition & exploiting a units weaknesses......at lower price points!
 
You know, all of you armchair, forum lawyers think you are the "stable, calm brains" of the web.

To demean someone "in the form of a question" is no less demeaning. To make accusations in the form of a question, is still accusatory. I love this forum and 90% of the members I have met over the years.

But their are some , as in this thread that are so darn smug and righteous it makes me sick. But I guess that's what the web and hiding behind your PC is all about.

I am done.............Did harry rape marys child? That's a question also.......................Good bye
 
There is currently one, and only one, official firmware version. 19.00.

Beta releases are for the benefit of those who wish to unofficially investigate them.

If you don't like firmware churn, stick with one version, or use a product from another company that sits on its ass once a product is released and doesn't offer updates.

Seriously, don't expect to use terms like


"lack of disipline and control"

"random developments are being thrown"

"without adherence to a product development plan"

"frantic developments"

"knee jerk reaction"

"stream of consciousness"

"self defeating"

"amateurish"


and not be perceived by many as a whiner, a dick, or both.
 
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I love Fractal and look up to Cliff! The more hours they put behind the development of their product, which then is offered to customers at no extra cost or obligation, is what makes their gear the most exceptional value on the market.
 
No way man.. if there's an improvement that's going to make our unit sound more like the real thing.. then let them come.. I don't care if there's a new one every day.. Cliff has these "visions" in the middle of the night.. and we wake up with something new to make us sound better. Absolutely no need to complain here. If it's making it better.. bring it on.. IN DROVES.
 
I love the betas. Before i got my XL+, i used an Eleven Rack. In the 5 or 6 years (or more) that unit has been on the market, Avid released one FW update. In the month that I've had my XL+, I've seen 3 different betas, each one improving on the last. I have a ton of respect for Cliff, Matt, and everyone else on the FAS team for staying so involved with both the product and the user base, while still developing new gear like the FX8 and AX8.

Sent from my SCH-R970 using Tapatalk
 
I made this comment in a different thread. The lack of release note in my opinion was strategic. The forum of full of people who are very grateful as well is people who always want more and are forever starved for information that they analyze on a critical level at all times. I bet Cliff just wanted people to experience the update with their hands and ears not there eyes and intellectual analysis.

Things go to the Beta team before they get to us. The forum usually last less then 48 hrs after a release before we start seeing "what's next" threads

I've thought there was a good chance of this as well. Cliff could release a FW and tell everyone the differences in the release notes and then wait for the forum to parrot back the improvements verbatim. But it's got to be incredibly gratifying to release the update and truly hear the users identify the improvements and acknowledge what has changed. That would also help mitigate allegations of placebo effect.
 
For what it's worth, I am still on FW 19. The 20 Beta looked pretty awesome based on the forum response, and it's even harder to hold back on the Quantum Beta. But I know myself, and I won't feel like it was worth it if some things don't work quite right or if the subsequent official release makes a major corrective change. So I sit back and feel thankful for the Beta releases where bugs get flushed out, and forum users generate a lot of tips and tricks and help me set proper expectations for when I finally upgrade. It's the best of every world. Break neck development and improvements, with no risk for me.
 
Well there's some lively responses! Thank you

Can I just correct you Stratman68 - I have not directly smeared anyone with my post, and I never would. I have shared a concern and asked a couple of challenging questions, that's all.

Clearly many here do not share those concerns, that's great.

Isn't sharing views, often with differing opinions, and debating topics what forums are all about, or are we supposed to only sing praise, whoop and holler with joy?

I apologise if my post has offended anyone and I am more that happy to refrain from posting further if that's what people would prefer.

Gazza

Fair enough!
 
You're right... it's a terrible thing to have an owner who cares enough to strive for perfection... and give his latest epiphany, in the form of a FREE firmware update... ;-)

Don't like it, don't update... simple... ;-)
 
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