I'm concerned that updates are getting a bit out of control

[Lax]

Time for some guitar playing and less fapping around...You want to see real chaos in updating ? Play blizzard video games (with updates containing half of what was announced) or EA ones (which comes in several parts as dlc).

Attacking cliff because an update was skipped and a little marketing is made ? Do you prefer people to sell oranges in a cave ? Forbid communication and competition ? This is a capitalist world, and things are not falling fished and cooked in you plate by itself !
The ax8 will have a v1 or v2 fw, seems normal to me.
What if fractal was over agressive in marketing ? Would it change the fact that they upgrade their product everyday and have a solid link with users ?

I think that in order to settle this, fw20 as little as it would be should be released after quantum 1, just to make it available and recall that updates are free and so are they free to make them as they wish

 

[TG3K]

If I have an imminent gig and all my programming done, I wait until I have the time to upgrade to the next version, so that I can really put it through its paces, and not run out of time before I have to have it fully functional and programmed.

With my approach, I've never rolled back to something previous because the new one didn't work for me, and I was out of time to prepare my settings for the next gig...

I take pretty much the same approach, and have had the same success.

I spent a lot of years in the commercial software development business, and I think I understand where the OP's questions are coming from, but it's the old way of thinking. In the old school development model, things were done in a very controlled, metered process. (I was Director of Product Development at a company that sold over 40 million copies of our flagship product. I've been down that road.) Marketing controlled the timing of new releases and helped determine which features to add to each new release. But in more recent years, the typical consumer software development process has changed into something that's a lot more spontaneous, and driven more by the customer's needs and suggestions. Sometimes the development roadmap is driven by committee, and sometimes it's done by a single individual.

In the case of Cliff and the Fractal team, they are constantly coming up with a lot of things the customers can't even think are possible in addition to finding solutions to customer requests. Having a pool of eager users willing to beta test is a great asset to them, as it help them build the best product they can. I'm happy to be part of that pool of volunteer testers.

 

[GazzaBloom]

I take pretty much the same approach, and have had the same success.

I spent a lot of years in the commercial software development business, and I think I understand where the OP's questions are coming from, but it's the old way of thinking. In the old school development model, things were done in a very controlled, metered process. (I was Director of Product Development at a company that sold over 40 million copies of our flagship product. I've been down that road.) Marketing controlled the timing of new releases and helped determine which features to add to each new release. But in more recent years, the typical consumer software development process has changed into something that's a lot more spontaneous, and driven more by the customer's needs and suggestions. Sometimes the development roadmap is driven by committee, and sometimes it's done by a single individual.

In the case of Cliff and the Fractal team, they are constantly coming up with a lot of things the customers can't even think are possible in addition to finding solutions to customer requests. Having a pool of eager users willing to beta test is a great asset to them, as it help them build the best product they can. I'm happy to be part of that pool of volunteer testers.

A well reasoned and sensible reply - thank you.

I understand and think I agree, perhaps I'm just not used to Betas being thrown around and tested in a public forum, on other products I own Beta testing is done by invitation and revisions and correspondence is done away from the public eyes in a private forum. As many have said, I can choose to ignore beta releases, and I do, I only update with the official releases.

I'm also surprised at the speed of developments, first the buzz is 'dephase' then it's 'Quantum'....'dephase isn't even officially released yet! Perhaps my brain is a little too slow to keep up.

 

[Bojangles]

 

[JJunkie]

Its not a big deal. Don't get hung up on the names.. and you'll be OK. He changed some of the maths and called it something specific. I think its good because it gets him recognition for his hard work (not that that was his intention). Its definitely easier to identify with than 'yet another' cathode follower algorithm improvement or whatever.

 

[McChiel]

A well reasoned and sensible reply - thank you.

I understand and think I agree, perhaps I'm just not used to Betas being thrown around and tested in a public forum, on other products I own Beta testing is done by invitation and revisions and correspondence is done away from the public eyes in a private forum. As many have said, I can choose to ignore beta releases, and I do, I only update with the official releases.

I'm also surprised at the speed of developments, first the buzz is 'dephase' then it's 'Quantum'....'dephase isn't even officially released yet! Perhaps my brain is a little too slow to keep up.

As a software developer in an Agile environment I can only say: join the gang! It's so easy to get inspired as developer and 'think of something that changes the game' which will make it so that a product will undergo quite some work before release.

When you have dedicated followers who are willing to test your product during release cycles you can only be a very happy programmer As a user: you ususally *never* see these steps happening, you can with FAS, I think it is fascinating and the ultimate form of transparency in software development and interaction with your user base.

Cheers,
Michiel

 

[Bodde]

I have shared a concern and asked a couple of challenging questions, that's all.

Was not planning on getting involved in this discussion but couldn't resist. Lately these 'challenging questions' and other critical questions or remarks about things that you would like to see improved in the Axe fx are getting very hostile reactions on this forums. Although sometimes fun to read it also worries me that one can only say positive things about a product on a forum. That is if you don't want to get these hostile reactions. Can't we all have a good discussion without jumping at each other's throat? On a forum there should also be room for these challenging questions. Don't take it too personal!

 

[pauly]

Agreed,
We have both waterfall and agile projects going on and it's interesting to see the differences in users to the delivered products. The agile project recipients seem to have more 'buy in' which is understandable I guess, as they often have input right up to the last weeks before delivery. With the waterfall projects, it can be 3 to 6 months before the even get around to UAT, and often they have forgotten what was elicited from them by the analysts all those months ago

Anyway, let's get back to bitchin'

Thanks
Pauly

As a software developer in an Agile environment I can only say: join the gang! It's so easy to get inspired as developer and 'think of something that changes the game' which will make it so that a product will undergo quite some work before release.

When you have dedicated followers who are willing to test your product during release cycles you can only be a very happy programmer As a user: you ususally *never* see these steps happening, you can with FAS, I think it is fascinating and the ultimate form of transparency in software development and interaction with your user base.

Cheers,
Michiel

 

[NeoSound]

With FAS the ultimate goal is accurate tube amp emulation and that's what the Axe Fx has been about from the beginning. I think we lose sight of that at times when new ideas and concepts are thrown at us, but Cliff has kept his eye on the mark. Modeling has reached a level that a lot of people thought was impossible a few years ago. Thanks to the hard work and creativity of people like Cliff we get to enjoy better tones than anyone in previous history. All is good!

 

[Stringmanipulator]

Like I've said before I trust Cliff and FAS in these matters more than I do myself, and I am very very grateful that I get a share of the development being done on this sound machine for free !! I am very grateful because I would probably not being able to afford all these updates anyway.

So for me this is a big thing about the firmware evolving like this .. it has by far surpassed any of my wildest imaginations. Frankly I don't think it is ok to even suggest that this quantum naming is some kind of sales gimmick ... I really don't think FAS deserves that, and I don't think it's fair to suggest that they would ever use such a "sales trick" ,, they don't have to .. why should they ?? they are already no #1 by far, leaving the competition in the dust ..

Having said that, I understand that everybody has the right to their own opinion, so I am just giving you mine as a respond to yours .. and I don't want to sound rude or angry, and I don't want to start a fight, I just thought it was unfair, because I think the post imply that they are not really sure what they are doing, and that is ridiculous to think that of a company that has created AXE FX .. and so much more ..

I rest my case

 

[Rex]

...perhaps I'm just not used to Betas being thrown around and tested in a public forum, on other products I own Beta testing is done by invitation and revisions and correspondence is done away from the public eyes in a private forum.

Don't worry, there's still plenty of beta testing going on behind the scenes.

 

[tallcoolone]

if you get upset by OP's opion you are taking it all a little too serious .

Truth

 

[DukeOfPrunes]

for what its worth I agree to a degree


Fractals support and Cliff's passion are unequalled and IMHO their product is unequalled.

I do think you have to be careful of throwing out too many "game changers" at one time or in quick sucession at the risk of your company coming acrosss like an old school snake oil salesman.

I will say Cliffs betas are pretty rock solid as far as betas go . behind the scenes they are making sure these things run well before putting them out there . So I wouldnt say amatuerish



no doubt this thread will get ugly . but hey, this is a place to discuss the axe fx right . all aspects of it, and if you get upset by OP's opion you are taking it all a little too serious .

My preference would be to have the option to update and choose the version "that pleases my ears". I also prefer it if Cliff doesn't sit on his epiphanies for too long and shares it with his clients (for free...). As far as snake oil is concerned, there are a multitude of facts on FAS, Cliff and their products to dispute any such claim in the past or upcoming future. Other big companies sit on breakthroughs for years before issuing to the public (and they charge the consumer), thereby milking the consumer for all they can over many years.

If I have to choose, I will go with the faster releases and take my chances on having the first world problem of choosing the version I want.

 

[APOGEE123]

I am more that happy to refrain from posting further if that's what people would prefer.

Gazza

Yes please refrain from posting cuz this was the dumbest post I've seen really...

 

[barhrecords]

When did guitar players become so afraid of the world? It used to be about getting laid... (and then about getting paid... when I got older and fatter )

How could the frequency of firmware updates of a piece of electronic equipment possibly cause worry or angst?????

 

[RDH]

I'm sure it's driving the competition crazy!! They can't keep up! Therefore it's out of control for them!
Otherwise ,Who cares ? It's win ,win for us Ax Fx users! Keep em coming!!!

 

[Coby]

As a software developer in an Agile environment I can only say: join the gang! It's so easy to get inspired as developer and 'think of something that changes the game' which will make it so that a product will undergo quite some work before release.

When you have dedicated followers who are willing to test your product during release cycles you can only be a very happy programmer As a user: you ususally *never* see these steps happening, you can with FAS, I think it is fascinating and the ultimate form of transparency in software development and interaction with your user base.

Cheers,
Michiel

Totally agree! Nothing more to say. All the rest in this thread is only "bla bla bla"

 

[laughyouraxeoff]

Yes please refrain from posting cuz this was the dumbest post I've seen really...

The Dumbest post i've seen on here is from John Mayer Fans who said he's a great guitarist and song writer.......

 

[shasha]

Been here for a long time so I think that I have a fairly good take on the way things that work around here.

First off the pace of development has always been borderline breakneck. I don't know how he does it, but he pumps out updates as if he was charging for them or something. If he gets an idea and can bring it to fruition he is going to release it. Why? Because he has a purpose built hardware platform that was designed for continuous development and improvement. That's not how other companies work; they build to a specific capability at the lowest price point possible for maximum profit....when they do develop a new feature set they develop a new piece of hardware to sell you. We could sit here and compare modelers that have hit the market the same time frame as the release of the AxeFXII and see how many of them are still relevant or highly sought after today. I can almost guarantee you that they've either been replaced by a new "improved" product completely or they've come down in price significantly. Why? Because they have little or no expansion capability or even if the hardware allows it they've had no development.

There's another really funny thing about the FAS business model. Within the inner circles of guitar nerd-dom there was a following, but there wasn't the promotion that you get with bigger brands and that makes absolute sense. Marketing is extremely expensive and without it you aren't going to move millions of units during Christmas. There's an entire proven strategy involved in the big market. Of course they want happy customers, but you basically get what you pay for and understand that if something new comes out you are making an entirely new investment. Development for that product ends after the release and the only releases you will see if you are lucky are bug fixes.

Now we could sit here and argue the merit of that business model vs. what FAS does which is basically ask the customer to make an initial investment into a continuously evolving device. Some people seem to have real heartburn with the way that Cliff does business or even if it's not a real issue with it they question his motives. He sells us a rock solid, powerful box that does what it advertised to do and then he improves it continuously. The AxeFXII I have sitting about 3 feet away from me is so much different than the one that I originally bought that it's not even funny. This unique development model has allowed the company to develop and release improvements to the customer base at a pace that no other company in any other industry that I know of has ever met....combine that with the absolutely inarguable fact that this continuous improvement has been delivered with absolutely no additional cost and it's just amazing to be a part of and I appreciate it.

Another thing that FAS did to further enhance the user experience was by releasing beta versions to the public much earlier. This wasn't some marketing strategy (or maybe it was), but this only happened after a few years of us begging for it. There is value in doing this because there are people that are attracted to this kind of development, the users are engaged and the pace at which you can test an idea is improved. So long as it doesn't blow the box up there really isn't any downside to releasing a public beta, but there sure are advantages to it. Everyone has their own unique workflow and application and if your in house or regular beta testers don't have the time or inclination to test a particular method things get overlooked and missed. This gets it to as many different scenarios as possible and enhances the development process.

Which brings me to the point that I want to make about the original post. Yes, FAS is a business and as a business it is utterly stupid to not try to make your product marketable or attractive. But don't confuse this latest series of beta releases as some direct knee jerk reaction to try to counter the potential sales of the Helix or whatever else is out there. It's actually quite the opposite. FAS was the first to make a hardware modeler with the ability to load user IR's. It's been there for years now going back to the first generation devices. There is not one significant feature of the Helix beyond the colored interface that the AxeFXII hasn't been able to do for a long time now. The Helix in fact was a response to what the AxeFXII delivers and an attempt to lure customers that are in the market for those features that may not have the resources to make the initial investment.

What you are implying is that Cliff somehow changed how he does things in order to try to make FAS relevant which obviously isn't the case because when a multi-million dollar company is basing their flagship product on something that you've been delivering for years....well I don't know what you call it, but you aren't the one in chase position.

Quantum is just a name for this release. Cliff made a significant breakthrough, much like he did with G3 technology and as a result he named it. Incremental improvements are given version numbers, changes to how he does things are given new terminology. MIMIC was one, G2, G3, tone-matching, etc. All significant changes to how the unit operated or the process he used moving forward.

Now if I didn't have 69 different version numbers in my AxeFXII firmware folder (and that's not every release or beta) then I suppose you could question the motivation, but the fact is that FAS is continuously developing and releasing improvements to its users, always has, and God willing always will.

This is business as usual and business is good.

 

[J.C]

It's interesting how the mind creates things to be upset about.