III sounds dark compared to II, advice please

L

luke

Guest
I have recreated a patch on my III (FW 5.02) using the exact same parameters as those on my II (FW 19).

They both go to my mixing board, out to my CLRs, I can quickly A/B from one to the other.

While the patches feel the same, the III patch is darker overall and lacks the chime the II patch has.

Simply turning up the treble or presence is not the solution. It as though a blanket is over my cabinets.

Advice appreciated.
 
You can’t have the exact same parameters between two very different modeling versions. A lot of things have changed under the hood, so to speak.

Parameters have been replaced or removed in Ares 5.02 that may be in fw19 on the II.

The latest II firmware should make it sound similar to the III, so I’d probably update your II and then try to match it to the III

Going to be difficult to match an old firmware on the III since you don’t have that modeling engine even
 
luke said:
I have recreated a patch on my III (FW 5.02) using the exact same parameters as those on my II (FW 19).

They both go to my mixing board, out to my CLRs, I can quickly A/B from one to the other.

While the patches feel the same, the III patch is darker overall and lacks the chime the II patch has.

Simply turning up the treble or presence is not the solution. It as though a blanket is over my cabinets.

Advice appreciated.
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I’ve had that feeling before, so you’re not alone. But couple days ago, I did a test where I mic’ed up and recorded a JTM 45, then I recorded the Axe through a power amp and cab, then shot the IR and recorded the Axe fully direct and there was very little difference between the three clips even considering that Cliff’s amp is a different physical specimen than my own.

In short, the Axe III is VERY accurate. If you’re having the blanket effect, make sure your cab block high cut is all the way off. Or you may be using an IR that’s darker than what your ears want to hear.
 
Thinking about the IR situation, I always used the V30 IR with the dyn 112 microphone. Since the III does not have the mic sims anymore, someone made me a an IR with those parameters. I had assumed it was identical, perhaps they had some hi cut or something else going on that has muted the top end?
 
There were some IR copies of those mic Ir’s floating around a while back. If you like how a given mic affects the tone you could blend the two IR’s. Also other ways to do it with eq etc, but as far as I know, the old mic sims were just the Ir files so you can still do the exact same thing if it worked well for you.
 
lqdsnddist said:
There were some IR copies of those mic Ir’s floating around a while back. If you like how a given mic affects the tone you could blend the two IR’s. Also other ways to do it with eq etc, but as far as I know, the old mic sims were just the Ir files so you can still do the exact same thing if it worked well for you.
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If I understood how to do it, I would create the IR using my II and then import it into my III. Any advice?
 
Are you aware that to blend them inside the axe you should use two cab blocks in series? The mic sims in the II were in series to the cab, if you put it in parallel it would add a lot of bass and treble
 
I chose different IRs for my main presets when I first switched over from the II to the III because the III didn't have the mic sims. I also re-dialed in my presets. A lot of things have changed recently. I just had to reset the amps on all my presets and dial them back in to get it to sound right with the new Axe FXIII firmware 5.02.
 
trancegodz said:
I chose different IRs for my main presets when I first switched over from the II to the III because the III didn't have the mic sims. I also re-dialed in my presets. A lot of things have changed recently. I just had to reset the amps on all my presets and dial them back in to get it to sound right with the new Axe FXIII firmware 5.02.
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I have 103 presets to cover all the sections, of all of the songs in our set list.
 
luke said:
Thinking about the IR situation, I always used the V30 IR with the dyn 112 microphone. Since the III does not have the mic sims anymore, someone made me a an IR with those parameters. I had assumed it was identical, perhaps they had some hi cut or something else going on that has muted the top end?
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Bingo! That “mic sim” is the culprit. In the II, selecting a Mic in the cab block isn’t switching the mic used on the speaker. It’s just an EQ that you’re essentially putting on top of whatever Mic was used to create the IR. For example, if the IR was shot with a 57, selecting the 121 mic in the cab block doesn’t change the mic, it just adds an EQ curve to it based on a 121’s frequency response.

If you’re needing more top end air, try adding a touch of 8k in the Amp Block GEQ, or put an EQ after the Cab Block and add top end there.
 
Another option for AB'ing is to take the AMP only output of the II into the same CAB on the III or vice versa, easy to do with IN/OUT 2 on either. (I believe @2112 does this often to remove extra variables between AFx's.)

Yes, there is extra ADC/DAC conversion but this will be able to isolate obvious AMP and CAB differences. You could also do a TMA on each unit to see if there are actual FR differences.
 
Adding the EQ after the cab block and using the frequency response graph of the AKG DYN 112 I found online dramatically improved things, I'm 95% of the there. Thanks for the help.
 
FractalAudio said:
You know that mic is a kick drum mic and I originally included for use with bass, right?
Click to expand...

Yes. I've used them my entire life as I started on bass. I like the flat response across the middle with the little bumps on top and bottom. I get it that it is weird, but it works for me.
 
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