IEMs + FOH and use of Reverb?

[unix-guy]

So.can we back up some?
How do you plan to monitor the Axe (signal path, gear)?
Is it just the Axe or do you plan to get the whole band mix?
If so, who controls that mix? Do you run FOH or mix from stage, and which console?
Are you wired or wireless?.

Mackie DL32R, wireless IEMs, we control monitor mix only (in most cases). Every member will be direct to the mixer, each with a separate monitor mix they control.

My signal path is guitar->Axe Fx->ART S8 splitter->DL32R. The other "side" of the splitter would go to FOH... Unless I send that directly from the Axe Fx instead (as mentioned in previous post).

Others would be similar.

 

[unix-guy]

We use the X32Rack as a split monitor. Dry signal to the FOH, and the X32 reverbs to my ears. Sounds great!

-PJ

Yes... I've heard the effects on the X32 are better quality... I can definitely go this route with the DL32R, too... But the reverb isn't the same high quality as the Axe Fx.

 

[s0c9]

My signal path is guitar->Axe Fx->ART S8 splitter->DL32R. The other "side" of the splitter would go to FOH.

So there's not enough reverb from the Axe preset being routed back from the DL32R into your IEM's - I take it - and the reverb that you can add to the DL32R IEM mix is not adequate?

Can you send OUT1 direct to FOH with current reverb, add a Reverb Block and FX LOOP and send OUT 2 to the ART S8?
You could make that Reverb a global block and put on all presets?

 

[unix-guy]

So there's not enough reverb from the Axe preset being routed back from the DL32R into your IEM's - I take it - and the reverb that you can add to the DL32R IEM mix is not adequate?

Can you send OUT1 direct to FOH with current reverb, add a Reverb Block and FX LOOP and send OUT 2 to the ART S8?
You could make that Reverb a global block and put on all presets?

Maybe (re) read my original post... My question is about if I should add reverb from the Axe Fx so that it goes to both the IEM mix and the FOH. I don't normally use any reverb... But I don't normally use headphones and when I do I don't enjoy the sound unless I add reverb due to the directness of the sound.

I don't honestly need to send any reverb to FOH, but I am asking if I should do that because that allows me to just use one output and keep all the processing inside the Axe Fx.

 

[s0c9]

I don't honestly need to send any reverb to FOH, but I am asking if I should do that because that allows me to just use one output and keep all the processing inside the Axe Fx.

As a sound guy, my answer would be "NO" - to sending reverb to FOH, as that is not something I can remove (if I need to). But.. I CAN add it to parts of the FOH mix if needed.
I would keep sending what you are to FOH and figure out how to add FAS reverb to the DL32R.
Probably going to need multiple outputs for that..

 

[unix-guy]

As a sound guy, my answer would be "NO" - to sending reverb to FOH, as that is not something I can remove (if I need to). But.. I CAN add it to parts of the FOH mix if needed.
I would keep sending what you are to FOH and figure out how to add FAS reverb to the DL32R.
Probably going to need multiple outputs for that..

Yeah... Kind of already come to that conclusion a few posts back

I will likely run stereo to the DL32R for IEM via Output1 with reverb and drop an FX Loop block right before the reverb to send Output2 to FOH without...

On that note, as a sound guy, do you run dual mono for FOH or straight mono? Trying to figure out if I should just send a single mono (or LR summed) output or a dual output?

 

[s0c9]

On that note, as a sound guy, do you run dual mono for FOH or straight mono? Trying to figure out if I should just send a single mono (or LR summed) output or a dual output?

Dual MONO if I have enough channels... it gives me the option to pan hard L/R at the board, as folks often use ping-pong effects, that don't translate well to FOH.
If not, then straight mono, center panned.

 

[unix-guy]

Dual MONO if I have enough channels... it gives me the option to pan hard L/R at the board, as folks often use ping-pong effects, that don't translate well to FOH.
If not, then straight mono, center panned.

Thanks!

 

[Maxxblade]

I will, but I really can't see how adding a "room" sound will take anything off of my guitar signal that is going directly to the IEM mix. Our entire setup will be direct... so an ambient mic in our rehearsal room will get us talking and via bleed the singer and the sound of the drummer's stick's on his electronic pads.

Didn't know you have no speakers. What about performance?

 

[unix-guy]

Didn't know you have no speakers. What about performance?

I'm not quite sure what you are asking... the band will be totally "silent" on stage. Everyone is direct and monitoring with IEMs. The audience will hear is from FOH amplification.

And regardless of whether or not I have speakers for my rig, and ambient mic still does nothing to alter the direct sound from the Axe Fx.

 

[Maxxblade]

I'm not quite sure what you are asking... the band will be totally "silent" on stage. Everyone is direct and monitoring with IEMs. The audience will hear is from FOH amplification.

And regardless of whether or not I have speakers for my rig, and ambient mic still does nothing to alter the direct sound from the Axe Fx.

I had a hard time getting mine not to sound like the guitar speaker was taped to to the side of my head. When I made it sound close to the way I would like to hear it, it stopped cutting through in the mix. Adding an ambient signal out near the down stage edge so it picked up the room including the PA made it sound more like I would be hearing it if I didn't have in ears. Therefore it sounded much more natural and I didn't have to make things more complicated. Another thing I do is we have a digital board so I am able to double my signal and route one for the house and a separate channel just for monitor mixes post eq so I could eq it for my in ears. I have molded 2 drivers.

 

[konradmann]

We are starting to use IEM and would be thankful for some experiences of yours.
We use Behringer XR18 for IEM und have miced all drum set (7 mics).

But how it works live? Especially when we play with few other bands at the evening.
So the FOH will make the main mix and provides drum micing etc.
Is it usual in this scenario that we split all signals (one to our IEM-Mixer, one to the FOH)?

Do you have experiences with followed scenario – it seems to me more practical, because usually the big mixers have 6-8 aux sends:
We get from the FOH-Mixer (of course through the stage box, we provide cables) 5–8 channels:
5 Channels (mini version): 2 for Stereo Mix (Vox+Drums), 2 Guitars, 1 Bass
8 Channels: 2 Drums Mix Stereo, 2 Guitars, 1 Bass, 3 Vox-Mics

 

[unix-guy]

We are starting to use IEM and would be thankful for some experiences of yours.
We use Behringer XR18 for IEM und have miced all drum set (7 mics).

But how it works live? Especially when we play with few other bands at the evening.
So the FOH will make the main mix and provides drum micing etc.
Is it usual in this scenario that we split all signals (one to our IEM-Mixer, one to the FOH)?

Do you have experiences with followed scenario – it seems to me more practical, because usually the big mixers have 6-8 aux sends:
We get from the FOH-Mixer (of course through the stage box, we provide cables) 5–8 channels:
5 Channels (mini version): 2 for Stereo Mix (Vox+Drums), 2 Guitars, 1 Bass
8 Channels: 2 Drums Mix Stereo, 2 Guitars, 1 Bass, 3 Vox-Mics

We have not used ours as yet (brand new!), but our design approach was that WE have splitters (2 x ART S8). All our inputs go into the splitters which then feeds 1 output to FOH and 1 output to our DL32R for each input.

Our case is a bit different in that we have no drums to mic - they are all electronic - but in concept it should work the same.

The way we do things, we should not be dependent on limitations of output channels/buses from FOH...

We'll see how well it works in practice, but I think FOH sound guys will enjoy our setup because they really just need to put a snake down to accept all inputs in a single location

 

[s0c9]

But how it works live? Especially when we play with few other bands at the evening.
So the FOH will make the main mix and provides drum micing etc.

depends on the venue setup!

Is it usual in this scenario that we split all signals (one to our IEM-Mixer, one to the FOH)?

Yes.. somewhere in the chain you need a split that runs into your XR18. How - or where - those splits come from, and what they may contain will depend on the house system and what you have - like @unix-guy's ART S8 splitters.
However, it WILL depend on the venue setup, how many bands are playing, and how much time between bands.
In a multi-band setting, things are often shared, so it's unlikely that the house will want you to disconnect drums and hook them up to your splitter.

Do you have experiences with followed scenario – it seems to me more practical, because usually the big mixers have 6-8 aux sends:
We get from the FOH-Mixer (of course through the stage box, we provide cables) 5–8 channels:
5 Channels (mini version): 2 for Stereo Mix (Vox+Drums), 2 Guitars, 1 Bass
8 Channels: 2 Drums Mix Stereo, 2 Guitars, 1 Bass, 3 Vox-Mics

Yes, you may have to go this route.. which is less than ideal IME. even more so if you can't control those mix feeds.

When we do multi-band events (occasionally) at festivals, we usually bring backline and leave the IEM rig behind and go with whatever the SR provider supplies. Most are not set up to hook in your IEM rig, as they often use wireless mics, stage boxes and so on, and re-configuring their wireless stuff is a challenge between bands. Most won't..

 

[s0c9]

We'll see how well it works in practice, but I think FOH sound guys will enjoy our setup because they really just need to put a snake down to accept all inputs in a single location

and you now need to carry all those extra XLR cables to go from S8's to snake! LOL

But it WILL work great - unless you are in multi-band setting *see my reply above to @konradmann

 

[dpeterson]

We use a splitter snake, much easier than the split8's, all contained, easy to label, and the ear rack doesn't have to be specifically in one place (length of the mic cables).

Even in a multiband setup, it takes about a minute to unplug and replug up the snake.

 

[s0c9]

Even in a multiband setup, it takes about a minute to unplug and replug up the snake.

What do you do when the SR provider has wireless mics for Vox?
DO you bring your own and patch, or ?
We've not been able to figure out how to work around that challenge!

 

[konradmann]

depends on the venue setup!
Yes.. somewhere in the chain you need a split that runs into your XR18. How - or where - those splits come from, and what they may contain will depend on the house system and what you have - like @unix-guy's ART S8 splitters.
However, it WILL depend on the venue setup, how many bands are playing, and how much time between bands.
In a multi-band setting, things are often shared, so it's unlikely that the house will want you to disconnect drums and hook them up to your splitter.
Yes, you may have to go this route.. which is less than ideal IME. even more so if you can't control those mix feeds.

When we do multi-band events (occasionally) at festivals, we usually bring backline and leave the IEM rig behind and go with whatever the SR provider supplies. Most are not set up to hook in your IEM rig, as they often use wireless mics, stage boxes and so on, and re-configuring their wireless stuff is a challenge between bands. Most won't..

Thanks, you addressed few concerns that I have I also have doubt, that venue will connect the drum mics in our splitter, that is the reason for thought about smaller solutions.

 

[konradmann]

We use a splitter snake, much easier than the split8's, all contained, easy to label, and the ear rack doesn't have to be specifically in one place (length of the mic cables).

Even in a multiband setup, it takes about a minute to unplug and replug up the snake.

Thanks! Now I will try to find the splitter snake

 

[dpeterson]

What do you do when the SR provider has wireless mics for Vox?
DO you bring your own and patch, or ?
We've not been able to figure out how to work around that challenge!

We patch our own in. We all use our own mic's. I wont use a supplied mic, talk about germs, wow, I'm surprised anyone does. Plus ours are generally better than any provided.

We also do overheads for hat and ride, and some places don't want to do that so we have our own drum mics if need be, they just don't use those channels out from, but in the ears it's glorious to hear the hat for counts etc. It usually takes me about 15 minutes to explain everything to the sound guy, some guys get it, some don't get it until after we are done playing.