IEM Setup Guidance

[vangrieg]

I saw a Rosh Roslin video and it clicked.

I have a poor man’s version of this, with two cables velcroed together lol.

The end of the video stunned me however, he says he’s using JH Audio JH-16 IEMs. Those have 18 Ohm impedance. I have JHA Laylas (20 Ohm), they are absolutely unusable with the FM3 headphone output (like all current gen Fractal products, it has 35 Ohm output impedance). I mean, there is sound, of course, but with such a horrible frequency response I’m not sure how anyone can use it at all. This is the EQ adjustment I have to apply to have a remotely tolerable sound (it’s still rather bad)

 

[rustyshed]

Here you go. This should get you up and working.

So I have tried this and it does work but I notice a kinda latency or delay with the signal when the input 1 stream is patch to input 2.

Is this normal?

Are you running stereo iem stream or mono from foh?

Thanks

 

[macky7tyseven]

I don’t understand how “it’s the same” but “it’s different”?

Are you just saying that the individual lines (before they are EQ’d, panned, mixed, etc) are typically the same ones fed to monitor and FoH for mixing? If so, then sure - except to the extent they are different (as noted above, there are sometimes sounds in monitors that are not in FoH, and sometimes sounds that are in FoH but in no one’s monitors…).

Sorry for being unclear. What I was pointing to is an easy setup: The same signal goes from output 1 into our band-mixer (QSC touchmix16) and from there to FOH as well as into my Inear. I do that because I want to hear my guitar as close as possible to what the audience hears regarding EQ, effects, stereo etc. But of course I want my guitar a bit louder than other instruments and that is managed by my individual inear-mix.

 

[AXEMike]

So I have tried this and it does work but I notice a kinda latency or delay with the signal when the input 1 stream is patch to input 2.

Is this normal?

Are you running stereo iem stream or mono from foh?

Thanks

The monitor send coming from the board is pretty much always mono (make sure you turn your guitar signal all the way down in the monitor mix coming from the board, or you will get some phasing issues due to the short lag). If you look a little further up in the thread, you can see that I scrapped using this setup due to some of these issues (and unpredictable monitor mixes in some venues).

 

[Rumbletone]

Sorry for being unclear. What I was pointing to is an easy setup: The same signal goes from output 1 into our band-mixer (QSC touchmix16) and from there to FOH as well as into my Inear. I do that because I want to hear my guitar as close as possible to what the audience hears regarding EQ, effects, stereo etc. But of course I want my guitar a bit louder than other instruments and that is managed by my individual inear-mix.

Ok thanks for clarifying - in the above discussion you seemed to be suggesting that no one ever needs anything different in their monitor mix than what goes to FoH (other than the level), so i was just responding to that - i.e., there are lots of scenarios where you do want/need something different - but yeah if you don’t need anything different, no need to make it different.

 

[TD77]

Here’s a useful video on this subject. I just got an Iem unit and following this setup…almost. I’m reserving output 2 for FRFR so I can have some stage volume. Going to give it a go next weekend and see how it sounds.

 

[Techboy57]

Ok thanks for clarifying - in the above discussion you seemed to be suggesting that no one ever needs anything different in their monitor mix than what goes to FoH (other than the level), so i was just responding to that - i.e., there are lots of scenarios where you do want/need something different - but yeah if you don’t need anything different, no need to make it different.

Everyone needs to hear something different. This is why monitoring for IEMs is so important and is the reason why there are monitor engineers who specialize in this for more elaborate tours. There is no one mix fits all solution for IEMs.

 

[Techboy57]

I have a poor man’s version of this, with two cables velcroed together lol.

The end of the video stunned me however, he says he’s using JH Audio JH-16 IEMs. Those have 18 Ohm impedance. I have JHA Laylas (20 Ohm), they are absolutely unusable with the FM3 headphone output (like all current gen Fractal products, it has 35 Ohm output impedance). I mean, there is sound, of course, but with such a horrible frequency response I’m not sure how anyone can use it at all. This is the EQ adjustment I have to apply to have a remotely tolerable sound (it’s still rather bad)

Headphones and earbuds are a personal choice. And if there are impedance mismatches, this can make for a bad in-ear mix. Fortunately, my earbuds Mackie MP240 (32 Ohms), which is a better match for the 35 Ohm headphone output of the Axe 3's headphone out.

No one can make this decision for you. You must choose what works best for you. And it doesn't help that we have so many choices available to us.

 

[vangrieg]

No one can make this decision for you. You must choose what works best for you. And it doesn't help that we have so many choices available to us.

Which decision are you talking about, I’m not sure?

35 Ohm output impedance is bad for a headphone amp, it’s not a decision I can make or unmake.

And no, there aren’t a lot of high impedance IEMs, so there aren’t too many choices. Plus high impedance headphones have their own downsides (again, especially if we’re talking about IEMs). 32 Ohms you mention would be better than 20 but still nothing good.

So the choice is basically to either live with it or use a headphone amp, wired or wireless.

 

[vangrieg]

Everyone needs to hear something different. This is why monitoring for IEMs is so important and is the reason why there are monitor engineers who specialize in this for more elaborate tours. There is no one mix fits all solution for IEMs.

I think two obvious things that often are different are EQ and reverb. Reverb can be very detrimental when sent to FOH in a lot of scenarios, I would say that maybe it’s best to avoid sending it at all unless it’s somehow necessary, FOH can add as much as they need anyway. Yet a lot of people want to smooth the sound in their IEMs, and make the it less direct. So there are some quite contradictory requirements.

 

[Techboy57]

I think two obvious things that often are different are EQ and reverb. Reverb can be very detrimental when sent to FOH in a lot of scenarios, I would say that maybe it’s best to avoid sending it at all unless it’s somehow necessary, FOH can add as much as they need anyway. Yet a lot of people want to smooth the sound in their IEMs, and make the it less direct. So there are some quite contradictory requirements.

Like any effect, like reverb, sometimes less is more. But, the enhancer block used for the IEM's can give a wider stereo field in your mix.

 

[BBN]

Like any effect, like reverb, sometimes less is more. But, the enhancer block used for the IEM's can give a wider stereo field in your mix.

Here is what has worked for me (after playing around with Reverb/Enhancer with my IEM mix.
I run three 'inputs' into my Axe III, and use the mixer block (and effects) to send the perfect mix to my IEM.
My guitar goes to FOH with appropriate effects (directly from Axe)
My vocal goes to FOH dry....and is split to also go into my Axe (dry).
Band IEM mix comes from FOH (dry) and goes into my Axe.

Now, in my Axe.
Input 1 - Guitar (with any effects I happen to use for each song)
Input 2 - Vocal (with a Reverb added in the Axe FX...just for my IEM mix)
Input 3 - Band (from mixer - with no vocal or guitar) -with a stereo enhancer added in the Axe.

I blend these 3 signals using the mixer block.
I put the stereo enhancer on the FOH feed with the band (drums/bass/other vocals) - so that it gives a nice stereo spread
I add Fractal Reverb to my vocal and no stereo spread (so it's right down the middle) - with this I hear my vocal clearly, helps me stay in key, and the Reverb is just a great addition to remove the sterile-ness from IEMs.

My front panel performance controls are 5 knobs:
1- Guitar volume going to IEM
2- Vocal volume going to IEM
3- Band mix going to IEM
4- Vocal Reverb mix to IEM (allows me to quickly make it more dry or wet, which helps on different stages)
5- Stereo Enhancer mix (which is on just the FOH band input), to let me tweak the 'width' of the band signal in my ears...again, I may change this based on how things sound in my IEMs on a given stage/night

This set up gives me the most control, when I cannot mix my IEMs myself (some venues don't let me connect my ipad)

 

[JoeW-NC]

Here you go. This should get you up and working.

I like this approach - when I was using my AxeFX headphone out to feed wired IEMs I used a similar approach, but assigned the crossfade function to a spare EV2. It allowed me to hear "full mix," "just me" or anywhere in between, hands-free.

 

[ZenRigs Man]

I've been using my Axe-FX III for some time now as a mixer for my IEM with some outboard controllers for ease of tweaking on the fly. I'm currently rebuilding this for an FM9 rig and, when done, I'll share a full breakdown and also do a live session on it - as this is something I've been asked about quite a few times during my live-streams.

 

[BBN]

I like this approach - when I was using my AxeFX headphone out to feed wired IEMs I used a similar approach, but assigned the crossfade function to a spare EV2. It allowed me to hear "full mix," "just me" or anywhere in between, hands-free.

That is something I had not thought of....very cool.

 

[hitmusic]

The original post was about taming a +5db boost in IEM's and it stated the use of a digital mixer.

If you are taking your IEM output from that desk, why not set a limiter on the output? - You have a digital desk so presumable one is available on each monitor mix?

I have everything going straight into an A&H QU PAC, I have 4 monitor IEM mixes (whatever people want - 3 stereo 1 mono). I can choose post or pre EQ & channel strip for all channels (I go for post most of the time) and the final EQ curves for overall IEM mix can be done from the mix buss (which is also where the compressor/limiter lives).

It basically a traditional monitor setup and for larger gigs, we can take a feed off all the channels to give to FOH and they can do whatever they want with it.

Most act's that I know using IEM's run this kind of setup in some form or another.

PS: I do work with a couple of people with extreme 'profound' hearing loss and I manage to get them what they need by reading their hearing loss charts, so I do feel that if they can work like this (and they do so incredibly well), that maybe we can all take a little compromise or two.

 

[rustyshed]

Hi,
Just wanted to post an update on my experimentation. Just in case it helps someone else. I have gone with a very simple approach after playing about.

I run Axefx3 Output 1 to FOH, a Foh aux feed straight to my Sennheiser ew and I run axefx3 output 2 to other input of Sennheiser ew.

Now I can eq output 2 add effect and pass all boosts that run to FOH, so they don't blow out my ears lol. I also do not have any latency audio demons that appeared trying the other way suggested.
I would like to thank everyone for your input and help. I really appreciate it

 

[giantslayer]

I just have my monitor send from the desk sent to my IEM... why would I just want to hear me? weird

What people are doing is taking the monitor mix from the board and routing that to one of the Inputs on the AxeFX so they can hear everything.

The difference is you are hearing your guitar straight from the unit. Why would you want that?
1. It sounds better.
2. You can hear your guitar in stereo even if the board only has one channel for your guitar or The monitor mix is mono.
3. Lower latency.

 

[FarleyUK]

The original post was about taming a +5db boost in IEM's and it stated the use of a digital mixer.

If you are taking your IEM output from that desk, why not set a limiter on the output? - You have a digital desk so presumable one is available on each monitor mix?

I have everything going straight into an A&H QU PAC, I have 4 monitor IEM mixes (whatever people want - 3 stereo 1 mono). I can choose post or pre EQ & channel strip for all channels (I go for post most of the time) and the final EQ curves for overall IEM mix can be done from the mix buss (which is also where the compressor/limiter lives).

It basically a traditional monitor setup and for larger gigs, we can take a feed off all the channels to give to FOH and they can do whatever they want with it.

Most act's that I know using IEM's run this kind of setup in some form or another.

PS: I do work with a couple of people with extreme 'profound' hearing loss and I manage to get them what they need by reading their hearing loss charts, so I do feel that if they can work like this (and they do so incredibly well), that maybe we can all take a little compromise or two.

Basically because the drummer (who does the sound) never even suggested it or let me know it was possible

Thank you - I've talked to him about it and he's said he can set it up on my monitor mix, which will make things a lot simpler for me!

 

[BBN]

What people are doing is taking the monitor mix from the board and routing that to one of the Inputs on the AxeFX so they can hear everything.

The difference is you are hearing your guitar straight from the unit. Why would you want that?
1. It sounds better.
2. You can hear your guitar in stereo even if the board only has one channel for your guitar or The monitor mix is mono.
3. Lower latency.

Agree on those points.

One thing I'll mention is - you often need to make sure your guitar signal is fully removed from the FOH monitor mix.
If you don't, you will likely hear phase issues when your Axe and Monitor mix are blended. (because of the latency in the monitor feed)