I wanna make an FRFR comparison video. Suggestions for methodology and other odds and ends?

deathbyguitar

deathbyguitar

Power User
I'm in the middle of going down a rabbit hole with FRFR speakers for no reason. It's kind of my thing. Anyway, I figured this would be a perfect opportunity to make a back-to-back comparison video (or several) about FRFR speakers that have been mentioned on the forum and elsewhere. I've seen tons of videos like this but not too many that compare a bunch of speakers together.

Here's the speakers I currently have:
Xitone custom design with corrective EQ DSP
Another Xitone without corrective EQ
Yamaha DXR12
Simmons DA2012B
Kustom KMP10

I'm also considering buying the Yamaha DHR12M and I could probably find someone in central NC to let me borrow a CLR. (wishful thinking).

I have some vague ideas of the kinds of tests I'd run - Running the same guitar loops through each speaker and different IRs, capturing the room sound at distance with my Zoom H5, maybe also using an RTA mic to show frequency response, maybe I'd make some charts with important info (wattage, weight, ect). I feel like this is a solid gameplan but am I missing anything?

If I were to make this kind of video (or video series), what kinds of things should I include in it? I wanna get REALLY geeky with this.

Your thoughts?
 
It could be interesting... But, I can't think of a practical way to make a video that validly demonstrates FRFR cabs.

The best you could do would be to use a high quality reference mic in a well treated studio, I think.

BUT (the big but!) anything you do will probably not give the viewer/listener a great response because:

  • What you mic with will probably capture some room (but not the listener's room)
  • Will depend on where the mic(s) are relative to the monitor
  • Will be played back on whatever the listener monitors with
  • Will likely be colored by the streaming platform you host the video on
Good luck!
 
I was the one who mentioned Simmons. It's actually not as good as my first impression led me to believe. It takes quite a bit of EQ to get it sounding decent. It was hard to tell in isolation, but with a PXM on hand now, the difference is...well...clear. :)
 
Rex said:
When you record your FRFRs, make sure they're in exactly the same spot in the same room. Even placing them a foot or two apart can give one of them in unfair advantage.
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…And that the volumes are exactly the same, not the output level on the modeler, or the knobs on the cabinets, but the dB level of the cabinets. If one is louder than the others our brain will think it sounds better, all other things being equal.
 
Don't do it in a studio or home-like environment.

Find a club, auditorium, or warehouse. Crank the FRFRs and let it rip.
 
These things always become subjective, but it’d be great to include some high quality studio monitoring in the mix as well. My aim with any frfr speaker would be for it to sound as close to studio monitors as possible. Interesting thing you’re doing and I look forward to seeing it!
Thanks
Pauly

deathbyguitar said:
I'm in the middle of going down a rabbit hole with FRFR speakers for no reason. It's kind of my thing. Anyway, I figured this would be a perfect opportunity to make a back-to-back comparison video (or several) about FRFR speakers that have been mentioned on the forum and elsewhere. I've seen tons of videos like this but not too many that compare a bunch of speakers together.

Here's the speakers I currently have:
Xitone custom design with corrective EQ DSP
Another Xitone without corrective EQ
Yamaha DXR12
Simmons DA2012B
Kustom KMP10

I'm also considering buying the Yamaha DHR12M and I could probably find someone in central NC to let me borrow a CLR. (wishful thinking).

I have some vague ideas of the kinds of tests I'd run - Running the same guitar loops through each speaker and different IRs, capturing the room sound at distance with my Zoom H5, maybe also using an RTA mic to show frequency response, maybe I'd make some charts with important info (wattage, weight, ect). I feel like this is a solid gameplan but am I missing anything?

If I were to make this kind of video (or video series), what kinds of things should I include in it? I wanna get REALLY geeky with this.

Your thoughts?
Click to expand...
 
Find a good sized closet in your house and line it with buffering material. Use one dynamic mic near the cone and a condenser mic a few feet away. Same mics, at same distances. Make sure you run your mics into a virtually no latency USB inputs. Put each FRFR in the exact same position, and the mics as well. Then yes, run a loop, playing the same music into the FRFR and record the exact same way into whichever DAW you have.

Record each, adjust for volume, with no EQ and make a YT vid with audio. Done.
 
deathbyguitar said:
If I were to make this kind of video (or video series), what kinds of things should I include in it? I wanna get REALLY geeky with this.
Click to expand...

IMHO, the best thing you can do is get a pair of binaural mics. They start at around $110 for the pair unless I'm mistaken. Think of them like IEMs except backwards (they're mics, not monitors).

Wear them while you're playing your loop, walk around a bit, etc.. It should give a more realistic impression of the sound you're getting in the room, even if it's not totally consistent.

If you want it more consistent, you can put something like a MiniDSP EARS on a stand. But, I'm honestly more interested in you wearing binaural mics while you're playing.

ETA: also, post the preset you use. Bonus points if it's low-DSP enough that an FM3 can run it, just so more people can do a direct comparison to whatever they're already using.

Also...binaural mics don't play back right on speakers. Make sure the eventual video/post/whatever the output is...says that it needs to be listened to on good IEMs for it to sound right.
 
Ron_R said:
Find a good sized closet in your house and line it with buffering material. Use one dynamic mic near the cone and a condenser mic a few feet away. Same mics, at same distances. Make sure you run your mics into a virtually no latency USB inputs. Put each FRFR in the exact same position, and the mics as well. Then yes, run a loop, playing the same music into the FRFR and record the exact same way into whichever DAW you have.

Record each, adjust for volume, with no EQ and make a YT vid with audio. Done.
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These are full range speakers. You wouldn't want to mic them with a microphone that's going to color the output...
 
I always wanted to try this but I couldn’t since I don’t have FRFR Cabs but maybe you could….

Compare the Frequency Response Graph of an IR and compare it to a captured IR using a flat reference mic from the FRFR and see how close they get (graph compensated for interface and mic coloration) or how much they are different.

Though spoiler no FRFR is truly Flat anyway lol

(I know there’s a *** ton of variables to account for like mic placement/position, room etc) curious regardless
 
Greg Ferguson said:
That'd kinda work if it's a coaxial speaker, but it's a problem if it has a separate woofer and tweeter or horn. Even a coaxial's speakers, being stacked, have a couple inches difference which would change the overall sound if close miked.
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I didn't consider that...thanks for the info!
 
Ron_R said:
I didn't consider that...thanks for the info!
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That's why it's difficult to create comparison videos correctly and so that they're fair. Their construction and speaker placement varies and fair tests need to accommodate those things. Even a small distance can make a difference to a microphone.
 
You don't see this done because it's a fools errand IMO.

Do you shop for displays based on videos that show you "display quality on a video?" How would you judge the quality of a display on a different display (the one you are displaying the video)? You would have to have a reference quality monitor/display at minimum to be able to judge such a thing (not withstanding, the video capture system, the editing pipeline, etc).

Now apply the same reasoning to speakers. If you already had a perfect FRFR system (and I mean truly FRFR) which is at a minimum what you would need to judge speakers based on a video (again assuming perfect capture, editing, etc) - why would you be looking at a comparison video for speakers in the first place?
 
ApocalypticKatana said:
Compare the Frequency Response Graph of an IR and compare it to a captured IR using a flat reference mic from the FRFR and see how close they get (graph compensated for interface and mic coloration) or how much they are different.
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Except that IRs are captured using standard studio/stage microphones, not reference mics, so, even if you had the same cabinet and positioned the reference mic the same as the original mic's position when the original IR was captured, you'd still have a difference because of the two mics. Even the mic's pattern can affect it. And let's not get into the mic's preamp and cables, or the crystalline structure of the lattices. :)
 
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