I need a powered monitor without dsp (no latency)

O

overture1922

Inspired
Hello guys

Recently and bought Presonus air10 (active speaker) to use with my Fm3. Although it sounded good, I was feeling a strange sensation compared playing thru headphones. My playing felt kind ´´disconnected´´, so I decided to measure the latency of the Presonus using the following method.

latency test.jpg

I compared the recordings and I found that the Presonus Air10 has around 5ms of latency compared to the direct signal.

presonus air10 vs direct.jpg


To prove that it was not something ´´inside of my head´´ I also did the same test with an analog speaker instead (with the same conditions) and there is no latency at all beetwen the two tracks.


analog vs direct.jpg


I know that the FM3 has around 3ms latency, and using it with the Presonus results in 8ms of latency (not to mention the inevitable latency that obviously exists between the speaker and our ears). Definitely it is noticeable (at least for me).


So guys, which active speakers, frfr, etc (10 or 12 speaker) without dsp (no latency) do you recommend?

Thank you in advance
 
Last edited:
What do you mean by “active” speaker? Powered? There are many powered speakers with no DSP although they are no longer the norm. But I’ve never heard of a 5ms latency for a speaker. That’s Bluetooth territory!
 
Patzag said:
What do you mean by “active” speaker? Powered? There are many powered speakers with no DSP although they are no longer the norm. But I’ve never heard of a 5ms latency for a speaker. That’s Bluetooth territory!
Click to expand...
Yes, I meant a powered monitor, to use live and also to play at home.
 
Then look for FRFR with the search tool. Hundreds of threads on the subject. Very much depends on budget.
 
Most powered speakers do not have dsp, and won’t have that latency. If you want a speaker with dsp (presumably you got a speaker with dsp for reason), just get one with a digital interface and you’ll avoid the latency. A dsp-equipped speaker without a digital interface isn’t very useful for monitoring.
 
I’d be surprised if what you experienced has to do with latency. 8ms total latency is really nothing. It’s equivalent to standing an additional 8’ away from the sound source.
 
GlennO said:
Most powered speakers do not have dsp, and won’t have that latency. If you want a speaker with dsp (presumably you got a speaker with dsp for reason), just get one with a digital interface and you’ll avoid the latency. A dsp-equipped speaker without a digital interface isn’t very useful for monitoring.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, many monitors these days have DSPs. Xitone, CLRs, and many others use DSPs for EQ and crossover’s.
 
Patzag said:
Unfortunately, many monitors these days have DSPs. Xitone, CLRs, and many others use DSPs for EQ and crossover’s.
Click to expand...
Yes, it’s the same with the new Adam dsp series. It’s an unfortunate trend that these speakers are often not equipped with a digital interface.
 
Bruce Sokolovic said:
I’d be surprised if what you experienced has to do with latency. 8ms total latency is really nothing. It’s equivalent to standing an additional 8’ away from the sound source.
Click to expand...
Inevitably there is natural latency between the speakers and our ears, but the thing is that this will increase even more adding gear with dsp. I feel fine with Fm3 latency, but adding 5ms more of latency on top of that I definitely can feel it, specially with clean tones.
 
overture1922 said:
Inevitably there is natural latency between the speakers and our ears, but the thing is that this will increase even more adding gear with dsp. I feel fine with Fm3 latency, but adding 5ms more of latency on top of that I definitely can feel it, specially with clean tones.
Click to expand...
Maybe you’d be expecting it because you see it, but it’s physically and mathematically no different. I couldn’t imagine a guitar player playing all analog gear standing 10’ away from a 4x12 having to move 5’ closer because he or she can hear and feel latency. It’s the same situation really.
 
Bruce Sokolovic said:
Maybe you’d be expecting it because you see it, but it’s physically and mathematically no different. I couldn’t imagine a guitar player playing all analog gear standing 10’ away from a 4x12 having to move 5’ closer because he or she can hear and feel latency. It’s the same situation really.
Click to expand...
10 feets from the speaker (all analog) =+- 10ms
10 feets from the speaker (+ fm3 + dsp monitor) =+- 18,3ms

Around 80% more latency....my goal is to reduce it, not to completely eliminate it.
 
There's a tipping point of latency each of us will start to notice at varying levels depending on our sensitivity to it. The more pieces of digital gear we add to our rig, the more we push latency toward that threshhold. So we all (regardless of how latency sensitive or not) have a limited "reserve" of latency available to "spend" on additional ad/da conversions before there's a latency problem. Given my own fondness for outboard gear, one of the last places I want to spend any of my latency reserve is on studio monitors which don't offer me added value in being digital (I'm not partial to EQs n shit in my st monitors - just nice flat as possible response w no sceens / knobs / buttons thanks). For this reason, part of my purchase requirements for the last set of studio monitors I bought was "no dsp", but that narrowed the field, and, as mentioned above, a lot of the dsp based choices offered no digital input option, or, if there is digital input, it requires a cable between L and R which I'm not keen on.
 
Last edited:
A powered speaker without DSP? I don't think your going to find a new box without it. probably have to build one or find an older model of powered speaker that didn't have it. That said I really like the EV PMX 12MP's I'm using if they have any latency I can't tell or notice it.
 
Here come the latency shamers right on cue. I totally agree with you Overture1922. The 2 ms or so of latency in the axe fx itself is unavoidable, and short enough to be unnoticeable to me. But I can start to feel the disconnect at 4 ms and it just gets worse from there. 8 ms is an eternity in this regard and would be a complete deal breaker for me. That's why my FRFR solution is totally analog. I was initially looking at popular powered speakers like the QSC K12s and Yamaha DXRs and others. But once I realized they pretty much all had DSP front ends, I went a different direction. I was determined not to add 1 more ms of latency if I didn't have to. I also wasn't crazy about the additional AD/DA conversion. I opted for a pair of Celestion F12-X200 cabs powered by a Seymour Duncan PowerStage 700. Pure sonic bliss.
 
overture1922 said:
Hello guys

Recently and bought Presonus air10 (active speaker) to use with my Fm3. Although it sounded good, I was feeling a strange sensation compared playing thru headphones. My playing felt kind ´´disconnected´´, so I decided to measure the latency of the Presonus using the following method.

View attachment 108479

I compared the recordings and I found that the Presonus Air10 has around 5ms of latency compared to the direct signal.

View attachment 108480


To prove that it was not something ´´inside of my head´´ I also did the same test with an analog speaker instead (with the same conditions) and there is no latency at all beetwen the two tracks.


View attachment 108481


I know that the FM3 has around 3ms latency, and using it with the Presonus results in 8ms of latency (not to mention the inevitable latency that obviously exists between the speaker and our ears). Definitely it is noticeable (at least for me).


So guys, which active speakers (10 or 12 speaker) without dsp (no latency)?

Thank you in advance
Click to expand...

Wow! That is super interesting. I have not seen something like this before. Sure is making me think. Thanks
for sharing.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom