I constantly feel like I'm guessing with my Axe FX II

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yek said:
When it come to stock cabs:

- When the Wiki says G12M or G12H, just use the Fractal TV Mix cab.

- When the Wiki says V30, just use the 4x12 Petrucci V30 cab. Excellent V30 but a bit dark so increase Treble/Presence to compensate.

- When the Wiki says Alnico, just use the Fractal 2x12 Silver Mix cab.

- When the Wiki says EVL, just use the Fractal Rumble EV12L Mix cab.
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Should this be in the Wiki? :)
 
Hey LVC, I know what nixie tubes are!!! I too grew up on analog and I know that organic alive sound that sort of does its own thing and interacts with you. It is sort of like the difference between having sex with a beautiful woman and jerking off. (Ponder that image of me jerking off in your mind for a minute) Playing these special guitar amps is a magical thing. And, just because it has tubes does not make it magic. But, all that aside, I have found the axe to be really organic and alive. Maybe not as great as the truly magic amp, but it truly does capture the essence of a real high quality tube amp. And that is an amazing accomplishment!!!

I run the axe two ways. In church I uses ir's, go straight to board and us in ear's with silent stage except for vocal monitors with a hint of the instrument mixed in. We accomplish a very polished sound; it is a good sound designed for a Sunday morning worship service. The axe works great in this paradigm.

i also occasionally jam with some bud's who like it old school. We're talking cranked tube amps with pedals. In this venue I run the axe with cab block off and at matching volume levels into a solid state amp and guitar speakers. I've tried several amps and cabinets. While there may be differences, they all still sound like a real amp. BY the way, just like a tube and, the louder you play the better the axe sounds. I think that is one problem people have - trying to get these cranked amp tones at bedroom volumes. You know, the feed back that Jimi Hendrix got was more about volume than gain!

I accomplish this with minimum tweakage and really couldn't be happier with the Axe II.

The idea that you can't get real in the room amp sounds out of the axe simply does not translate to my experience.
 
yek said:
When it come to stock cabs:

- When the Wiki says G12M or G12H, just use the Fractal TV Mix cab.

- When the Wiki says V30, just use the 4x12 Petrucci V30 cab. Excellent V30 but a bit dark so increase Treble/Presence to compensate.

- When the Wiki says Alnico, just use the Fractal 2x12 Silver Mix cab.

- When the Wiki says EVL, just use the Fractal Rumble EV12L Mix cab.
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I can imagine this must be very confusing to some. At least for me it is! :)


tonaholic said:
So much this. Best results I've had are with the new OWNHAMMER IR's with the Scott Peterson mixes ( SP mix). Killer thorough FRFR and direct to recording.

But seriously, just get the Ownhammers. They're really a game changer.
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Exactly which ones are you referring to? do you have a link? I never know where to look on the site.
 
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tonaholic said:
So much this. Best results I've had are with the new OWNHAMMER IR's with the Scott Peterson mixes ( SP mix). Killer thorough FRFR and direct to recording. I'm a bedroom player mostly but I've managed a large guitar store and know my gear. Got a chance to bring my axe/clr to a jam tonight and it floored everyone with it's tones. Once you have the good IR's, you just dial the amps like real life and maybe some effects if you want.

Now I need to learn scenes and how to mix amps/cabs like joe bonamassa/Eric Johnson. Maybe a second CLR too.

But seriously, just get the Ownhammers. They're really a game changer.
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Can't wait to try these through my new CLR Neos! :triumphant:
 
Scott Peterson said:
Today I went over a guy's house and he had a Mesa 50/50 power amp into a Peavey XXX 412. That's his rig.

So, given that rig I turned the power amp and cabinet modeling off globally; we got some decent tones, but nothing that great right away. I plugged in my CLR, we cranked up a bit and got killer tones, really had him smiling then. I plugged back into his rig and we tried it with the power amp modeling and cabinet modeling on and lo and behold... it sounded fantastic. It really did.

I've said it a million times before, and I'll keep saying it -=- it's the IR. Find the right IR for your amp, then dial the amp. It's simple then. It's all about the IR. Once you have that down; it's almost child's play to dial stuff in.
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So you actually got great sounds with a Mesa 50/50 power amp and 4x12 cab with the Axe FXII amp and cab sims both on? I have a Mesa 50/50 and 4x12 cabs and that was the very first thing I tried a couple years ago when I first got my Axe FXII and it didn't sound right to me. I then tried it with the amp sims and cabs off and that didn't sound quite right to me either. I only used the factory presets with no tweaking at the time as I had no idea how to properly tweak it when I first bought it. The Axe FXII sounded good through my studio monitors right away so that was how I used it for some time. As time went on I kept hearing how it was all about the IR so I bought a pair of FRFR powered speakers so I could use IRs. The reason I didn't buy the new light weight Matrix NL-112 was because I thought I wouldn't be able to use IRS with it, and I knew using the right IRs were key to getting a good sound. So you are saying you can get great sounds with a Mesa 50/50 power amp and 4x12 cab with the Axe FXII amp and cab sims both on? Does the same go for the Matrix NL-112?
 
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bgrizzmayne said:
Thanks Scott. How do you find the right IR? That's honestly what I'm particularly feeling like I'm guessing at. I go onto the wiki and look at good matches of amps with cabs, but there's still usually 20; they're numbers and changing out IRs and knowing what I'm looking for is a problem in itself. I guess I don't really know what to listen for in an IR. I guess I'll keep trying, but there's 100's of cabs and it's easy to get lost. I feel like I'm guessing with IRs
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What I recommend is working with the "Mix" versions that are stock - Factory IR's #75 - #118; and use that as your starting point. Use the wiki or just a standard Google search to determine what speaker/cab goes with a given amp for suggestions of where to start. If it is inspiring and fun to play, then it is good. If it is not, try another. One key point is that you need to know what something is supposed to sound like - IMHO - to quickly dial it in. You can get great sounds from things you have never used/heard but it's a bit more 'trial and error' than knowing what you want ahead of time.

trancegodz said:
So you actually got great sounds with a Mesa 50/50 power amp and 4x12 cab with the Axe FXII amp and cab sims both on? I have a Mesa 50/50 and 4x12 cabs and that was the very first thing I tried a couple years ago when I first got my Axe FXII and it didn't sound right to me. I then tried it with the amp sims and cabs off and that didn't sound quite right to me either. I only used the factory presets with no tweaking at the time as I had no idea how to properly tweak it when I first bought it. The Axe FXII sounded good through my studio monitors right away so that was how I used it for some time. As time went on I kept hearing how it was all about the IR so I bought a pair of FRFR powered speakers so I could use IRs. The reason I didn't buy the new light weight Matrix NL-112 was because I thought I wouldn't be able to use IRS with it, and I knew using the right IRs were key to getting a good sound. So you are saying you can get great sounds with a Mesa 50/50 power amp and 4x12 cab with the Axe FXII amp and cab sims both on? Does the same go for the Matrix NL-112?
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Trust me, I didn't anticipate it sounding good either - but it did. I was working for him, he had to be happy. He was happy. It's pretty easy to determine if it will work with the NL-112; try it.

I'll point out that I work with my own mixes of IR's and KNOW what they sound like and what they work with, etc.. I've owned or used many of the speakers and speaker types out there over the years both gigging, buying/selling/borrowing and recording in various studios over the years. So that gets me ahead in the learning curve and makes dialing things more efficient. When you are on the clock dialing up things for a guitarist, you have to have good ears and listen to what you are hearing and temper that with what the guitarist is hearing. Working through that process for yourself is just as demanding; I really don't need to do anything with crazy EQ cuts or boosts; I don't need to lean on Tone Matching, I don't have to do any advanced tab editing of esoteric parameters. Everything is pretty straight forward. The things I do change, I've detailed on my videos and in posts.

Note: I am not endorsing nor saying to use IR's with conventional cabs; I am noting that I tried it for a client (more on accident than on purpose - but every blind squirrel finds a nut sometimes) and we were both really impressed with how well it did work. I am saying - seriously - to just try different things like using IR's with conventional cabs if running things 'right' isn't working for you. Turning on the cab IR's and power amp modeling is just two quick parameter adjustments and will cost you nothing to try.
 
bgrizzmayne said:
Hey guys-

Every patch from other users I load RARELY sounds any good at all. Given how much $$ people pay for an Axe FX, I'm shocked by some of the sounds I load onto the unit- maybe it's my rig but so many presets I try sound absolutely awful. I'm just running a Suhr S-4 into the axe, and it's going to my Yamaha 5" monitors, or my matrix Q12a.

With my traditional rig, simply consisting of a pedalboard into a Fender 65 Deluxe re-issue, I can dial up some basic tones on my bogner blue pedal and get some decent tones. Literally everything at 5 o'clock, I plug in and can get some good stuff. I bought an Axe FX for recording and consistency with live use, but so far it's been such a headache to learn all the lingo/parameters and even get some usable tones out of it- whether for gigging or recording. No presets I load seem to sound anything like my traditional rig. And as I mentioned, building my own isn't getting me there either.
IDK.
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I would not use any presets from other users at first. Most of them will have dialed in their sounds using different monitoring systems from yours, and using a different guitar than yours, so they will not sound the same for you.

I suggest creating a new preset with the same amp model and effects models you use live. Start with just the amp. Use an A/B box and switch back and forth between your real amp and the same amp in the Axe FXII to compare the sounds. Start off using the same knob settings you use on your real amp then tweak them if necessary until it sounds the same to you. Make sure you are hearing them both at the same volume, and that you are the same distance away from them both. My Yamaha monitors sound thin unless they are turned up a bit. Then do the same for each of the effects you are using. You should be able to get very close.
 
I'm pretty happy with my tones by just using my Matrix amp and NL212 cab. I keep it simple by not messing with IR's at all, and cab sims off because I like the real cab feel and sound. Works for me but....it is not easy. So many hours spent studying everything online and an ass load of trial and error. I'm still having issues balancing volume between presets especially with my clean presets and I've watched Chris's video! Go figure. I'm learning more and more but still guess all the time. We all do, and yes, downloading presets online never sound good unless you know right where to make all adjustments for your particular set up and guitars etc. this is where patience and perseverance pays off.

I have seen some helpful videos online but still look for and hope for better videos on the finer details of creating simple clean, crunch and metal presets and tweaking all the finer details that are not so obvious. No Axe FX wiz has done that yet, but part of the problem is we all use different set up's so one persons fairy dust is another man's fairy farts. :fatigue:

Most videos are done by guys with FRFR rigs and their IR's it seems. It still kills me that Fractal has not put out quality instructional videos themselves to help the wide variety of its user base get the most out of these $2300 machines. I do love my Axe Fx, I'm grateful for it everyday but I still feel like I'm just a few short unknown steps to making my personal presets so much better than they are. With the Axe FX it's the details that can make the difference, just wish I understood them all.
 
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Scott, thanks for all your help on here! I still don't know jack diddly, but I am learning a little here and there. I'm not a pro player in terms of playing in a band, so I'm no tout playing and using it each night.


I am going now ot read about IR's. I've read the defenition, but are they just the recorded sounds you get from micing various cabinets with different mics and at different angles?

Is that what the IR is? How do you Match the RIGHT IR for that amp? Just scroll through all the cabs until you like one? oh well, time to go read. good news is my CLR's came last week and TODAy (Dec 24, 2013) my MFC-101 Finally comes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Damn what a wait for those 2 items, 6 months!


Merry Christmas All!


Tex (The Iotola with a Jack n Cola)
 
My two cents is make your own patches from scratch. Keep it simple. I use only basic controls and I don't bother at all with advanced parameters. I use only the JCM 800 for Rhythm and lead tones and the Vibroverb for clean. Just keep it simple. There are way more options than you'll ever get your head around and way more amps than you'll ever need. Don't feel pressured to try everything.

If you can get something simple to work then leave it alone, stop tweaking and just use that.

Also I only use stock cabs too.
 
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bgrizzmayne said:
Yeah, most definitely. I'm really looking for a good AC/DC crunch; etc.

Maybe I do need to try a poweramp + cab, but that requires so much additional money....a GT1000FX and a cabinet is going to put my modeling rig up another $1200 or more.

I get this whole 'amp in the room' thing, but I record with my deluxe all the time into the computer, and have solid results. The sounds that i'm hearing, playing back in my computer, are the mic'd sounds. So I don't think I'm having trouble getting used to this mic'd thing. Though maybe for live playing, it's better to have that 'amp in the room' quality, and maybe FRFR won't give that to you. I had sort of thought that having a FRFR speaker could give me some stage volume and sort of emulate having an amp on stage, if nothing more, than for other people to hear it.

I've had my own FRFR struggles before this; super harsh, etc. etc. The box is so complicated and it's easy to get lost. I guess I wish it was a little more plug and play; the amount of options is a gift and a curse. you can get REALLY deep into it, which I appreciate it, but it can be tough as a new user, trying to get it to do what you want.
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Your comments about your struggles with FRFR and it sounding superharsh really resonate with me. Took me forever to get used to FRFR and really love it. I struggled with the EQ for a long time and always felt it was too buzzy, snappy and harsh. Once I got comfortable in turning everything above 2k way down I started getting the magic. I was EQ'ing using my old paradigm and resisted letting go of my old way of thinking and letting my ears guide me. This was both with the AxeII and the KPA. I think for someone who is used to hearing an amp played through a traditional cab, you have to really dial down the global treble to get that same sound from a modeler + FRFR.

I play through a CLR these days (which is an amazing piece of kit), but I think you can get good results with most half decent FRFR solutions. My tweaking is so minimal since most amps sound good to me right out of the box with default settings. It has really been a god-send with two little kids, having to downsize space and not having the time to audition patches/profiles or do deep editing.
 
geamala said:
My two cents is make your own patches from scratch. Keep it simple. I use only basic controls and I don't bother at all with advanced parameters. I use only the JCM 800 for Rhythm and lead tones and the Vibroverb for clean. Just keep it simple. There are way more options than you'll ever get your head around and way more amps than you'll ever need. Don't feel pressured to try everything.

If you can get something simple to work then leave it alone, stop tweaking and just use that.
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+1

Once I was comfortable with the approach above, I "work in" different amps, just for fun.

I honestly have not gigged or seriously used well over half the amp models so far. But no worries. I don't feel deprived :)
 
Agree 100%
It is all subjective

How boring would the music world be if our choice of music gear was only one amp, one cab, one speaker and one guitar that was manufactured and sold by one company?

But even if we only had one choice there would be ongoing arguments over how one production run sounds better than another :lol


jimfist said:
This, of course, is purely subjective and will vary from player to player IMO. We have to be careful to not paint so broadly with respect to complex gear such as the AxeFx, and the relatively modern concept of FRFR guitar cabinets, as there are many who have succeeded to their satisfaction (and that of others) with respect to FRFR using IRs, and then there are those who have not, and for whatever reason. One user's success does not automatically guarantee another's success, and vice versa with respect to one's failures and frustrations. This also holds true for traditional tube gear. I've experienced the differences between 2 guitarists using identical gear...where one can make it sing, another can make it sound like absolute poop. An average guitar in the hands of an average user will sound, most likely....average. Same guitar can be made to sound extraordinarily good in the hands of a virtuoso (though the virtuoso may feel challenged to make it so).

You have to allow that, with some AxeFx/FRFR users, they DO have that mystical "knack" for being able to extract exceptional performance and feel out of gear. Call it "fairy dust" if you will. Some people take to this modern concept of amp modeling/FRFR like a fish to water...others struggle. I personally don't try to read any more into it than that, and if the challenge/frustration doesn't pay off for an individual in the final analysis, why fight it?

Viva La Difference!
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Scott Peterson said:
...

I'll point out that I work with my own mixes of IR's and KNOW what they sound like and what they work with, etc.. I've owned or used many of the speakers and speaker types out there over the years both gigging, buying/selling/borrowing and recording in various studios over the years. So that gets me ahead in the learning curve and makes dialing things more efficient. ...
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I am having a really positive experience with the AXE and my new CLR Neos playing in FRFR mode. I know I'll continue to get great tones and joy from this pairing. I am also sure that - in due course - I will become a competent IR mixologist for my taste.

But, I have one major handicap that I am struggling with - I am missing Scott's familiarity with speakers and speaker types. IOW - I know of speaker brands/models, but most I have either not heard at all or did not know what I was playing through (except, of course for my trusty old Jensens in my 2x12 Supro that I bought in 1968 and my stock JC-120 speakers I bought in the late '80s).

So how can a guy like me - with a desk job - not playing music - play catch up. Can I really do it virtually (AXE/Ownhammer/CabLab)? I just can't sit in a music store (e.g., Guitar Center) to audition speakers and cabs while simultaneously listing to 10-15 dudes playing different tunes at the same time anymore. Gettin to old for that I am sorry to say. :lol
 
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