I constantly feel like I'm guessing with my Axe FX II

[waylander69]

Hi

Felt I needed to give a little bit back to the forum when I read this thread :

I started off getting an Axe FXII in feb 2013 so I have had it less than a year, note I play at home for pleasure no gigs at this time,
I bought it as a unit I hoped would give me the best selection of effects, drives, delays, reverb etc
as I had been searching for the right AMP the previous year after finding the limitations of my Blackstar HT5r stack ( 5 wat valve amp with 10" speaker ) and the difference the master volume can make to the sound due to the valves coming alive LOL ( had been using a Line 6 pod xt for effects etc )

From the HT5R I ended up getting the Blackstar Series One ( 100 watt ) 4 channel monster and a Marshall 212 1939 ( believe me I tried lots and lots of amps wife thought I was mad lol )
I thought it would be cheaper getting the FXII for effects etc than buying lots of stomp boxes as I hadn't a clue what might sound good or bad.

So the FXII went into the Blackstar / Marshall rig in 4CM absolutely fab , took me a bit when I first got it to get to grips, not love at first listen but could see the promise ( v10 fw ) using 4cm method I could use a tradition rig or just use the power amp and cab of the rig , yes I knew the IR's were'nt available but the sound kept improving and joy continued.

Then the wife and i decided we would move house so we de cluttered, man cave was decimated, due to size blackstar / marshal rig boxed and packed away, got a gator 4u rack borowed a pa speaker and realised a downsized frfr rig would work,

After a trip to Matrix I came away with the GT800 amp and the FR212 cab, this now sits nicely in the corner and I have my laptop to play backing tracks through the FXII to fr212.

OMG with FW12 I am achieving some of the best audio sound possible, everything from Metallica, Mottley Crue, Shinedown, Rush, UFO, Free, Iron Maiden,

The conclussion, this box of trick takes time, you need to ask people and John aka lightningboy gave me the best advice when I was having a one to one and that was using a GEQ to cut the low and high frequency's down to size and make the audio closer to the cabs frequency response, ( about 60 hz to 3000 hz for the marshal cab I have G75T12 speakers )
Since the FRFR frequency range is full scale it makes a lot of difference, as has been seen on videos from the last Axe Fest they refer to this as not treading on the bass players toes LOL But it also makes a huge difference to the sound and feel of the FXII guitar sound ( IMO )
This is my number 1 check when I build a preset limit the audio freq after selecting amp and cab

hope this is of assistance

G \../

 

[barhrecords]

From the original description I'm wondering if something is off on the basic configuration? Either pwr amp or cab modeling is off or the basic gain staging and levels are off?

A full system reset is where I would start.

Also, I think a good, sounds like a big clean Fender amp, preset takes maybe more work than a Marshall crunch or overdriven tone.

With FRFR, the IR is where it all starts for me too.

But lowering transformer match in the Amp block and changing the low res frequency in the Amp block are also required for me to get that big Fender tone using IR's. Not so much for Marshall tones. But those tweaks are a must for me for big clean tones with almost zero or no breakup.

Sometimes just a very very small bump up to the bias too to clean up just that last little bit of distortion if I want a bell tone.

 

[markmusicman]

I also believe you should purchase the OwnHammer IRs I use these for all my presets. There are a few of the internal ones that I love but OwnHammer did it for me to. I hope you find your tone.

 

[LVC]

Been there.

I tried a bunch of powered high end FRFR monitors -- that after their respective honeymoon periods always left me scratching my head.

I changed to passive FRFR monitor (Q12) powered by a Mosfet A/b class amp (GT1000FX) and the AXE world opened up to me. No "power user" tweaking required -- adjusted amps etc old school style -- by ear and basic amp EQ -- Bam! Done!


I have since gone one step further and now only use real cabs (NL12s in my case). Double Bam! ... easy to dial in and get great tones for live and home playing.

I don't do any recording so my comments are for home players and gigging musicians that do not go FOH.

If you send me a PM I'd be more than happy to share some of the patches I use for gigs with you.

they are straight forward -- nothing fancy.

Hey guys-

The Axe FX is a deep unit. I just consistently feel like I am completely guessing with what to tweak to get my Axe FX II to sound good. Every patch from other users I load RARELY sounds any good at all. Given how much $$ people pay for an Axe FX, I'm shocked by some of the sounds I load onto the unit- maybe it's my rig but so many presets I try sound absolutely awful. I'm just running a Suhr S-4 into the axe, and it's going to my Yamaha 5" monitors, or my matrix Q12a.

For example; I load in an AC-30 Top Boost amp, with 2x12 Blue speaker, and the Axe just doesn't sound any good. Not a glimmer of a good tone needing to be unlocked; The top end isn't defined, the mids mushy and low end booming. Correcting that doesn't get me much anywhere- I feel like I'm so far in the hole when I start that it's tough to dig my way out of that.

With my traditional rig, simply consisting of a pedalboard into a Fender 65 Deluxe re-issue, I can dial up some basic tones on my bogner blue pedal and get some decent tones. Literally everything at 5 o'clock, I plug in and can get some good stuff. I bought an Axe FX for recording and consistency with live use, but so far it's been such a headache to learn all the lingo/parameters and even get some usable tones out of it- whether for gigging or recording. No presets I load seem to sound anything like my traditional rig. And as I mentioned, building my own isn't getting me there either.

There's so many metal patches out there- I'm just looking for some quality amp tones to base my sound off of. I just can't get anything to sound right, and if I do, I feel like I lucked into it. IDK, I guess I'm just frustrated. It seems so easy to make the unit sound awful, which as I mentioned, I feel like 90% of presets do. Sorry to come off so negative- maybe the modeler route isn't for me. But I sit down to track a song, spend 2 hours trying to get a quality sound out of my axe, and give up because I can't get it to feel/sound truly amp-like. Does anyone have any tips? I've done my best to learn all the basic parameters of the amp block, and I've lurked on here for a while, but I just can't get my amp models to sound good. I'm particularly a lower-gain player; does anyone have any examples of the axe killing on some lowgain? Maybe I should have gone Kemper for some more basic rock n' roll tones.

Basically, I feel like there's too many options for me sometimes, and no presets sound good to my ear. IDK.

 

[Suhrfer]

I help a lot of people one-on-one that express the same sorts of issues.

What you want is in there - though with the caveats very well explained above - the key isn't just turning parameters and knobs and hoping you get lucky and it isn't 99.999% of the time just downloading presets. The key is having a method to get what you want, not getting lost in the box. This is a creation machine, not a plug-n-play box.

Today I went over a guy's house and he had a Mesa 50/50 power amp into a Peavey XXX 412. That's his rig.

So, given that rig I turned the power amp and cabinet modeling off globally; we got some decent tones, but nothing that great right away. I plugged in my CLR, we cranked up a bit and got killer tones, really had him smiling then. I plugged back into his rig and we tried it with the power amp modeling and cabinet modeling on and lo and behold... it sounded fantastic. It really did. I had him really digging it within a few minutes... the key isn't that I'm so smart (I'm not) but I understand and can find what you need to use in order to get good tones out of the box. It's not some magic parameter, it's not some magic piece of gear you need. It is one ABSOLUTELY overwhelmingly simple (yet complex) thing you *need* to have down *first*. What?

I've said it a million times before, and I'll keep saying it -=- it's the IR. Find the right IR for your amp, then dial the amp. It's simple then. It's all about the IR. Once you have that down; it's almost child's play to dial stuff in. In real time, I'll drop my IR into the AFXII via FractalBot, I'll dial in the reverb and delay (maybe) and then the amp. In under 5 minutes - it's all good from there. Why? The IR.

If you don't understand IR's or how to work with them or the cabinet block; that's where you start. I have videos up about dialing the reverb and delay. I have a video up about dialing the cabinet IR using Cab Lab and Own Hammer IR's.

I'll be doing more videos soon, I'll keep answering questions and if you want to contact me - PM or email me. I'll try to help. Don't guess; it's a wild goose chase. It's not about buying more gear or any specific gear; it's about learning how to work with what you have right now.

I feel inspired! The instructional videos you make are all on your Youtube channel correct?

 

[guitarmike]

I have a friend who plays a deluxe reverb with pedals and I can tell you as an absolute fact that the axe fx can sound every bit as good or better than the real amp in the room, setting side by side. And it can do it with very little tweaking. Just start with a clean deluxe reverb amp and adjust the volume bass and trebel just like you would on the real amp.

Now, understand this, when I am playing with other real amps in the room, I do not use frfr. I run into a solid state power amp and then into guitar speakers and I turn of the cab block. I match the volume level of those around me, adjust the treble, mids, bass, and the axe kills.

Yes, there may be variations and sound a little different than a real DR depending on what speakers you use but it will still sound like a real amp. At least mine does!.

Perhaps there is something about frfr that doesn't translate to amp in the room sound, I don't know. I uses frfr at church, and it works great, but that really is a different kind of thing.

 

[rodzimguitar68]

I have a friend who plays a deluxe reverb with pedals and I can tell you as an absolute fact that the axe fx can sound every bit as good or better than the real amp in the room, setting side by side. And it can do it with very little tweaking. Just start with a clean deluxe reverb amp and adjust the volume bass and trebel just like you would on the real amp.

Now, understand this, when I am playing with other real amps in the room, I do not use frfr. I run into a solid state power amp and then into guitar speakers and I turn of the cab block. I match the volume level of those around me, adjust the treble, mids, bass, and the axe kills.

Yes, there may be variations and sound a little different than a real DR depending on what speakers you use but it will still sound like a real amp. At least mine does!.

Perhaps there is something about frfr that doesn't translate to amp in the room sound, I don't know. I uses frfr at church, and it works great, but that really is a different kind of thing.

I think one of the frustrations the OP expressed is that there seems to be far more online resources for heavy gain sounds than for delicate combo amp sounds. I was thinking about this yesterday. I have expressed these thoughts before, but again - to me, the thing that sets apart the Axe II is the ability of it to mimic a small, low wattage tube amp being pushed. IMHO many modelers or simulators can do the over-the-top-maximum compression high gain sounds.

When I think of awesome examples of vintage tube tone from small amps, I think AC/DC, Steve Miller -C'mon, Take the Money and Run, The Pretenders, Tom Petty. I'm not really a "fan" per se of the last two, but I respect what they accomplished, and I think the sound on their recordings represents the kind of "imperfect tube breakup" that I am chasing now. The gnarliness of Steve Millers outtro solo guitar sound on Take The Money and Run, is incredibly complex and to me, if the Axe could accurately do that (sound like a small amp that is about to fly apart and explode), it would be really impressive product performance.

I think it can, but I, too, just don't know how to take it there.

 

[bgrizzmayne]

I help a lot of people one-on-one that express the same sorts of issues.

What you want is in there - though with the caveats very well explained above - the key isn't just turning parameters and knobs and hoping you get lucky and it isn't 99.999% of the time just downloading presets. The key is having a method to get what you want, not getting lost in the box. This is a creation machine, not a plug-n-play box.

Today I went over a guy's house and he had a Mesa 50/50 power amp into a Peavey XXX 412. That's his rig.

So, given that rig I turned the power amp and cabinet modeling off globally; we got some decent tones, but nothing that great right away. I plugged in my CLR, we cranked up a bit and got killer tones, really had him smiling then. I plugged back into his rig and we tried it with the power amp modeling and cabinet modeling on and lo and behold... it sounded fantastic. It really did. I had him really digging it within a few minutes... the key isn't that I'm so smart (I'm not) but I understand and can find what you need to use in order to get good tones out of the box. It's not some magic parameter, it's not some magic piece of gear you need. It is one ABSOLUTELY overwhelmingly simple (yet complex) thing you *need* to have down *first*. What?

I've said it a million times before, and I'll keep saying it -=- it's the IR. Find the right IR for your amp, then dial the amp. It's simple then. It's all about the IR. Once you have that down; it's almost child's play to dial stuff in. In real time, I'll drop my IR into the AFXII via FractalBot, I'll dial in the reverb and delay (maybe) and then the amp. In under 5 minutes - it's all good from there. Why? The IR.

If you don't understand IR's or how to work with them or the cabinet block; that's where you start. I have videos up about dialing the reverb and delay. I have a video up about dialing the cabinet IR using Cab Lab and Own Hammer IR's.

I'll be doing more videos soon, I'll keep answering questions and if you want to contact me - PM or email me. I'll try to help. Don't guess; it's a wild goose chase. It's not about buying more gear or any specific gear; it's about learning how to work with what you have right now.

Thanks Scott. How do you find the right IR? That's honestly what I'm particularly feeling like I'm guessing at. I go onto the wiki and look at good matches of amps with cabs, but there's still usually 20; they're numbers and changing out IRs and knowing what I'm looking for is a problem in itself. I guess I don't really know what to listen for in an IR. I guess I'll keep trying, but there's 100's of cabs and it's easy to get lost. I feel like I'm guessing with IRs

 

[bgrizzmayne]

I think one of the frustrations the OP expressed is that there seems to be far more online resources for heavy gain sounds than for delicate combo amp sounds. I was thinking about this yesterday. I have expressed these thoughts before, but again - to me, the thing that sets apart the Axe II is the ability of it to mimic a small, low wattage tube amp being pushed. IMHO many modelers or simulators can do the over-the-top-maximum compression high gain sounds.

When I think of awesome examples of vintage tube tone from small amps, I think AC/DC, Steve Miller -C'mon, Take the Money and Run, The Pretenders, Tom Petty. I'm not really a "fan" per se of the last two, but I respect what they accomplished, and I think the sound on their recordings represents the kind of "imperfect tube breakup" that I am chasing now. The gnarliness of Steve Millers outtro solo guitar sound on Take The Money and Run, is incredibly complex and to me, if the Axe could accurately do that (sound like a small amp that is about to fly apart and explode), it would be really impressive product performance.

I think it can, but I, too, just don't know how to take it there.

Yeah, most definitely. I'm really looking for a good AC/DC crunch; etc.

Maybe I do need to try a poweramp + cab, but that requires so much additional money....a GT1000FX and a cabinet is going to put my modeling rig up another $1200 or more.

I get this whole 'amp in the room' thing, but I record with my deluxe all the time into the computer, and have solid results. The sounds that i'm hearing, playing back in my computer, are the mic'd sounds. So I don't think I'm having trouble getting used to this mic'd thing. Though maybe for live playing, it's better to have that 'amp in the room' quality, and maybe FRFR won't give that to you. I had sort of thought that having a FRFR speaker could give me some stage volume and sort of emulate having an amp on stage, if nothing more, than for other people to hear it.

I've had my own FRFR struggles before this; super harsh, etc. etc. The box is so complicated and it's easy to get lost. I guess I wish it was a little more plug and play; the amount of options is a gift and a curse. you can get REALLY deep into it, which I appreciate it, but it can be tough as a new user, trying to get it to do what you want.

 

[bgrizzmayne]

From the original description I'm wondering if something is off on the basic configuration? Either pwr amp or cab modeling is off or the basic gain staging and levels are off?

A full system reset is where I would start.

Also, I think a good, sounds like a big clean Fender amp, preset takes maybe more work than a Marshall crunch or overdriven tone.

With FRFR, the IR is where it all starts for me too.

But lowering transformer match in the Amp block and changing the low res frequency in the Amp block are also required for me to get that big Fender tone using IR's. Not so much for Marshall tones. But those tweaks are a must for me for big clean tones with almost zero or no breakup.

Sometimes just a very very small bump up to the bias too to clean up just that last little bit of distortion if I want a bell tone.

I'll try fussing with the parameters you mentioned- so far I really have just been using the main amp page. There's so many parameters that it's tough to understand what everything does, so if i start randomly tweaking stuff I don't understand, I may be able to get a good tone but I want to have control over it, like I do with my traditional rig. I'll save this tip though.

As for my config- I think I'm good to go as far as my setup. I have my input gain set so that I'm tickling the reds on my bridge pickup when I pick REALLY hard. My output isn't clipping, and all the other input/gate stuff I've left stock.

 

[rodzimguitar68]

I've had my own FRFR struggles before this; super harsh, etc. etc. The box is so complicated and it's easy to get lost. I guess I wish it was a little more plug and play; the amount of options is a gift and a curse. you can get REALLY deep into it, which I appreciate it, but it can be tough as a new user, trying to get it to do what you want.

Yeah, you keep turning the screws tighter. The tones keeps getting smaller and more focused. The notes are no longer wide, thick, and complex. They become ice picks.

The advice has already been given, but use a 2x12 mix cab and a fender amp. Make sure you reset the amp and cab blocks, and then select a 2x12 mix cab and Fender amp. Remove all other effects. Try to set the amp with the gain, bass, middle, treble, presence, master volume, amp block volume.

Don't worry about the other stuff yet.

Does it sound good when you record it and listen back?

 

[Tremonti]

I went to sell my axe fx standard a few years back. Got the Mesa Road King before I had the chance to sell the Axe Fx. Long story short I realized that the Axe fx can be as complex or simple as you make it. Gives you options that after going back to a tube amp you will miss.

When I get bored of my patches....I can change them. Tons of options and Cliff keeps adding and making better and even more options.

End of day, we as musicians, specifically guitarists are a fickle bunch. The Axe Fx cures that. Endo story!

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

 

[LVC]

Perhaps there is something about frfr that doesn't translate to amp in the room sound, I don't know. I uses frfr at church, and it works great, but that really is a different kind of thing.

IMO IRs are the weakest link. Don't get me wrong - they sound good and I have heard some direct recordings that have knocked my socks off ... but no amount of tweaking or fairy dust is going to make an IR going through a monitor sound and feel as good as a real cab driven by an amp.

The Axe-FX sounds amazingly analog when it is being driven by an amp into real cabs. IMO no comparison... but then again my first "amp" was not a Kidney Pod ... I grew up in an analog world ... hell When I was in high school the TI SR-10 was "big news" all the rage! :lol


In case you don't know what an Sr-10 is ... here is a picture.

 

[rodzimguitar68]

When I get bored of my patches....I can change them. Tons of options and Cliff keeps adding and making better and even more options.

I have actually never looked at it that way. If I get bored with my own patches or amp choices, I can overhaul them completely. Without spending a dime...inside the magical black box. If I buy an amp, I'm sort of stuck with it and can't change it without money being involved in some fashion.

 

[jimfist]

IMO IRs are the weakest link. Don't get me wrong - they sound good and I have heard some direct recordings that have knocked my socks off ... but no amount of tweaking or fairy dust is going to make an IR going through a monitor sound and feel as good as a real cab driven by an amp.

This, of course, is purely subjective and will vary from player to player IMO. We have to be careful to not paint so broadly with respect to complex gear such as the AxeFx, and the relatively modern concept of FRFR guitar cabinets, as there are many who have succeeded to their satisfaction (and that of others) with respect to FRFR using IRs, and then there are those who have not, and for whatever reason. One user's success does not automatically guarantee another's success, and vice versa with respect to one's failures and frustrations. This also holds true for traditional tube gear. I've experienced the differences between 2 guitarists using identical gear...where one can make it sing, another can make it sound like absolute poop. An average guitar in the hands of an average user will sound, most likely....average. Same guitar can be made to sound extraordinarily good in the hands of a virtuoso (though the virtuoso may feel challenged to make it so).

You have to allow that, with some AxeFx/FRFR users, they DO have that mystical "knack" for being able to extract exceptional performance and feel out of gear. Call it "fairy dust" if you will. Some people take to this modern concept of amp modeling/FRFR like a fish to water...others struggle. I personally don't try to read any more into it than that, and if the challenge/frustration doesn't pay off for an individual in the final analysis, why fight it?

Viva La Difference!

 

[godwentpunk]

With FRFR, the IR is where it all starts for me too.

A quick question...and I think I know the answer, I just want to confirm... IR's are specifically only CAB/MIC combinations so if I am going to use something like a GT1000 power amp but more importantly, my Marshall 1936 cab then IR's will not help me... Is that statement correct... but, if I went to a FRFR speaker, the IR's are needed due to me using CAB sims?? right.

joe...

 

[yek]

Thanks Scott. How do you find the right IR? That's honestly what I'm particularly feeling like I'm guessing at. I go onto the wiki and look at good matches of amps with cabs, but there's still usually 20; they're numbers and changing out IRs and knowing what I'm looking for is a problem in itself. I guess I don't really know what to listen for in an IR. I guess I'll keep trying, but there's 100's of cabs and it's easy to get lost. I feel like I'm guessing with IRs

When it come to stock cabs:

- When the Wiki says G12M or G12H, just use the Fractal TV Mix cab.

- When the Wiki says V30, just use the 4x12 Petrucci V30 cab. Excellent V30 but a bit dark so increase Treble/Presence to compensate.

- When the Wiki says Alnico, just use the Fractal 2x12 Silver Mix cab.

- When the Wiki says EVL, just use the Fractal Rumble EV12L Mix cab.

 

[rodzimguitar68]

All 4 excellent choices. I like the 2x12 blue, but the 2x12 silver mix sounds better through a sound system at performance volume. Just smoother and few notches missing than the blue mix.

 

[aziz]

Exactly. With a guitar cab, you have that one sound of your cab, and it will do its thing perfectly.

 

[sam]

A quick question...and I think I know the answer, I just want to confirm... IR's are specifically only CAB/MIC combinations so if I am going to use something like a GT1000 power amp but more importantly, my Marshall 1936 cab then IR's will not help me... Is that statement correct... but, if I went to a FRFR speaker, the IR's are needed due to me using CAB sims?? right.

joe...

Correct. IRs represent the captured sound of the cab/mic/preamp/analog-to-digital converter chain. They are used by the cab block to simulate the sound of a mic'd cabinet. You CAN use them with real guitar cabs, but it isn't recommended.