Wish I actually think this may be a bug related to External Control Initial Value

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BrienHBrown

Member
I recently ran into this problem when troubleshooting an issue with my Expression pedals. I attach three expression pedals to my FC-12 to auto-control my Vol/Wah/Pitch via External Control 1/2/3. The latter two are spring-loaded to heel-down position in their default state. I have the Initial Values set to 0% in MIDI/Remote Setup for these External Controllers. On occasion after prolonged use, the internal bolt on my pedal would come loose within the housing and become inoperable until I could take the time to repair. I simply want to unplug the expression pedal from the FC-12 so that it becomes completely inoperable. However, when I unplug the pedal, for some reason (I think this may be the bug) the initial value jumps to 100% rather than 0% as configured in setup. So as a practical example that means my Auto Wah becomes permanently engaged unless I manually dive into the preset and remove the Modifier Source. In the middle of a song in a live situation, this is obviously a nightmare! It's feasible to reach down and quickly unplug the expression pedal and get back to playing as opposed to jumping offstage and reprogramming the AXE mid-song!

The reason I think it's a bug is because I can go into the Initial Value setup and see it set to 0%, then unplug my expression pedal and watch the modifier within the block jump to 100%, then barely touch the Value knob in setup to 0.1% to re-initiate the 0% and watch the modifier jump back down to the bottom, so I'm not sure why it jumps to 100% simply by unplugging the expression pedal (even when the pedal is in heel-down position when you unplug it).

Whether this is a 'bug' or not, I 'wish' that value would remain or adjust to whatever the initial value is set to (in my case 0%) whenever you unplug the source and it's therefore no longer active. Thanks for considering!!
 
But Init Value is used only when the preset loads (or maybe also when you change it's value) - hence the "Init" (as in "initial") part of the name.

After that it has no effect, nor does the unit "know" that your expression pedal stopped working or that you unplugged the cable from the pedal (because the same electrical signal results from being toe down as from being unplugged).
 
Initial Value is just that — an initial value. The value gets changed as soon as the Axe-Fx detects a change in what’s coming into the pedal port. Unplugging your pedal is a change.

The core problem here is that you have a pedal that repeatedly fails during live performance. Fix that, and you’ve solved your problem. In the meantime, why not create a preset that doesn’t use a Wah at all. Then, when your pedal pukes, you can just change presets. You don’t have to bend down for anything.
 
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unix-guy said:
But Init Value is used only when the preset loads (or maybe also when you change it's value) - hence the "Init" (as in "initial") part of the name.

After that it has no effect, nor does the unit "know" that your expression pedal stopped working or that you unplugged the cable from the pedal (because the same electrical signal results from being toe down as from being unplugged).
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Yes it does, it automatically jumps to 100% when I unplug it, even though it was at 0% (or 1% thru 99%) when it was plugged in. If it behaved the way you described and stayed at 0% (or even the last setting it was at when it broke), I wouldn't consider it a bug and I wouldn't have a problem.

Try it, it's easy to recreate.
 
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Rex said:
Initial Value is just that — an initial value. The value gets changed as soon as the Axe-Fx detects a change in what’s coming into the pedal port. Unplugging your pedal is a change.

The core problem here is that you have a pedal that repeatedly fails during live performance. Fix that, and you’ve solved your problem. In the meantime, why not create a preset that doesn’t use a Wah at all. Then, when your pedal pukes, you can just change presets. You don’t have to bend down for anything.
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Thanks and I have fixed root cause. I'm just trying to prevent someone else (especially an artist playing an arena gig!) the same frustration. Please see above and recreate it. Thanks for the quick response!
 
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BrienHBrown said:
Yes it does, it automatically jumps to 100% when I unplug it, even though it was at 0% (or 1% thru 99%) when it was plugged in. If it behaved the way you described and stayed at 0%, I wouldn't have a problem.

Try it, it's easy to recreate.
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The modifier jumps to 100% or the Init Value does?

The former is expected but the latter would be a bug IMO.
 
With all that said, if anyone uses Mission pedals, I would highly recommend getting under the hood with a 1/2" wrench and tightening well. I own three for my AXE III, two for my FM3, and two for my Helix Floor, and almost all of them have come loose and become problematic if used as delivered from the factory. I guess I have a heavy foot!
 
BrienHBrown said:
With all that said, if anyone uses Mission pedals, I would highly recommend getting under the hood with a 1/2" wrench and tightening well. I own three for my AXE III, two for my FM3, and two for my Helix Floor, and almost all of them have come loose and become problematic if used as delivered from the factory. I guess I have a heavy foot!
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What specifically is coming loose? The pot?

I have 4 in use and have had others (I shifted out for spring and different colors) and never had any issues.
 
unix-guy said:
What specifically is coming loose? The pot?

I have 4 in use and have had others (I shifted out for spring and different colors) and never had any issues.
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Yes, the pot. You're lucky to have not had issues. Not fun in the middle of a gig and the majority of your presets have wah configured. You finish your 'Voodoo Chile' intro or 'Enter Sandman' solo or whatever and go into the chords and the wah is still engaged at whatever level it was at when the pot fell out. You reach down and unplug the damn thing and then it becomes fully engaged! It's only happened once in a live gig, but has happened other times during rehearsals or personal practice.

Now that I have experience with the issue, I know not to unplug the pedal but just reach down and push the black stick back attached to the pedal and manually move the pot back to 0 position. Regardless, I've now just tightened the hell out of all my pots and will routinely repeat that process before gigs.
 
A drop or two of Loctite on the threads will keep it from coming loose. Use Purple for small screws and Blue for the rest. Don't use the Red, it's permanent and requires a fair bit of heat to remove. Make sure you clean the threads with alcohol and let it evaporate completely before applying the Loctite.

Amazon product ASIN B000I1RSNS
 
BrienHBrown said:
Yes, the pot. You're lucky to have not had issues. Not fun in the middle of a gig and the majority of your presets have wah configured. You finish your 'Voodoo Chile' intro or 'Enter Sandman' solo or whatever and go into the chords and the wah is still engaged at whatever level it was at when the pot fell out. You reach down and unplug the damn thing and then it becomes fully engaged! It's only happened once in a live gig, but has happened other times during rehearsals or personal practice.

Now that I have experience with the issue, I know not to unplug the pedal but just reach down and push the black stick back attached to the pedal and manually move the pot back to 0 position. Regardless, I've now just tightened the hell out of all my pots and will routinely repeat that process before gigs.
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Is there a "star" washer on there? That should be there and should prevent the pot from loosening... Or, do what @mr_fender suggests.

Alternately, if it does happen I think you could quickly unplug the cable from the FC and reload your preset.
 
Great suggestions from both of you, I thought about the washer solution since during this thread and was getting ready to make a trip to the hardware store. I'll pick up some Loctite and do both!
 
BrienHBrown said:
Great suggestions from both of you, I thought about the washer solution since during this thread and was getting ready to make a trip to the hardware store. I'll pick up some Loctite and do both!
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There should already be a star washer on there. I'm pretty sure all of mine have them.
 
BrienHBrown said:
Thanks and I have fixed root cause. I'm just trying to prevent someone else (especially an artist playing an arena gig!) the same frustration. Please see above and recreate it. Thanks for the quick response!
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Understood. No need to recreate the issue. I know that’s how it works. :)
 
unix-guy said:
There should already be a star washer on there. I'm pretty sure all of mine have them.
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Mine do too now that I double-check. When the adrenaline's flowing on stage in front of a crowd, I guess the Vai-style-attempt at wah-bouncing doesn't help any. It's typically the spring-loaded versions that have given out on me.

Thanks again for the education and suggestions! Over and out.
 
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