Humbucker - single coil huge volume difference

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KW1234

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I have a balanced distortion sound done and when I switch to neck single coil from a bridge humbucker, I get significant increase in volume, at least 2-3 db. This does not happen with any real amp or distortion pedal, but I get it with every sound / preset with the Axe-Fx. Needless to say, it is a major pain in the ass. Any ideas what might be causing this?

The pickups are Suhr SSV & ML Neck & Bridge, which are tonally very balanced and I have adjusted the heights very precisely, so they are at same volume with a loud and clean tube amp.
 
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You might be running your axe fx with less compression than the analog rig?

Usually when i tap the single coil on a distorted tone it just becomes less saturated rather than quiet.

Also check the input impedance setting which is on the same tab as the input noise gate. It should be on 'auto' but on extreme setings like 22pF the volume will drop off considerably as soon as you touch the guitar vol knob or switch from HB to SC.
 
JJunkie said:
You might be running your axe fx with less compression than the analog rig?

Usually when i tap the single coil on a distorted tone it just becomes less saturated rather than quiet.
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My sounds have pretty much the same amount of gain I use with any real amp and I haven't touched any deep parameters. Other than that I don't know what it means to run the Axe-Fx with less compression?

Also check the input impedance setting which is on the same tab as the input noise gate. It should be on 'auto' but on extreme setings like 22pF the volume will drop off considerably as soon as you touch the guitar vol knob or switch from HB to SC.
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Checked, the input impedance is set to auto.
 
I'm not sure what could be causing that, I have a Shawbucker with fat 50's in the neck and middle and I do get a noticeable boost but nothing crazy or undesirable when going to the bridge.

Sorry to get off topic, but the guitar I just mentioned is actually on the bench right now because the fat 50's are coming out so I can give the ML standards a try in the neck and middle. How do you like them and are you playing a suhr or a strat? I've heard that everybody loves them but that position 4 isn't all that stratty (jangly, spanky, sparkly, etc) which would be a bummer. I'm hoping that my guitar still retains that classic strat sound. I also want to swap the shawbucker later on for an SSV or thornbucker. Does the SSV play well with the ML's?

Sorry about your volume issue.
 
I have the SSV with two MLs in one of my Suhrs. They work very well together. Also, don't forget to play with the pickup height to get a nice balance in volume.
 
jsl2h said:
Sorry to get off topic, but the guitar I just mentioned is actually on the bench right now because the fat 50's are coming out so I can give the ML standards a try in the neck and middle. How do you like them and are you playing a suhr or a strat? I've heard that everybody loves them but that position 4 isn't all that stratty (jangly, spanky, sparkly, etc) which would be a bummer. I'm hoping that my guitar still retains that classic strat sound. I also want to swap the shawbucker later on for an SSV or thornbucker. Does the SSV play well with the ML's?
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Sorry for the delay, I was on tour and now got another chance to tweak, read the forums etc. I have a Suhr Standard with SVV in the bridge and ML standards in neck and middle. The pickups are great. Based on descriptions I've had an urge to try V60LP's but honestly the ML's are working fine that I haven't gotten round to it.

In my opinion the SSV an ML's play together as good as a humbucker and sincle coils can. Of course, most single coils tend to have more bass and sparkle than humbuckers, which naturally have less bass and more midrange. That bothers some people and sometimes me too, but if you need a guitar with both sounds, like I do, SSV & ML's are a fine combination. The sound of positions 2 and 4 depend largely whether the middle pickup is reverse wound or not, you have to try yourself which one you like more. The SSV is split in position 2 and for me it's close enough. That said a split humbucker will never sound like a true single coil, so if you're picky and really want the strat 2nd position sound, you have to have a single coil in the bridge too, no way around it.

Also, ML's have more midrange while V60LP's (based on manufacturer's description, I haven't tried them as stated above) have a more scooped sparkly sound. I think most people think of a scooped sound as more spanky and sparkly, so maybe you could try those. The catch is, then the V60LP's are soundwise farther away from humbuckers than ML's and if that difference bothers you, they probably won't cut it for you. Pairing humbuckers and single coils really is a compromise but if you need to do it, I can recommend SSV & ML's.
 
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KW1234 said:
I don't know what it means to run the Axe-Fx with less compression?
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Set a compression block in your preset and play with the parameters until you get a balanced volume. There are a lot of tutorials floating around the net on compression settings.
 
I have a Suhr Classic with MLs. I love those pickups. My Classic is S/S/S configuration, as I wanted a straight single coil strat. All I had to do was a minor tweak in pickup height to get them balanced as I wanted. Very happy with the MLs.
 
I have the same issue with the axe or my amp. I put a drive block at the beginning of the chain. I believe its like th ep boost or rc boost. Can't remember but I like how that works. I made that a global IA button on the MFC.
 
Tommy Tempest said:
Set a compression block in your preset and play with the parameters until you get a balanced volume. There are a lot of tutorials floating around the net on compression settings.
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Thanks for the suggestion, but this is like treating the symptoms of a problem instead of solving the problem in itself. I think there has to be a remedy for this within the settings of the amp block itself (or something), instead of using other effects blocks to tackle the problem.
 
You could set up a scene controller and use it to adjust the input trim. Set up two scenes, one for H and one for S.
 
Also when I used purely amp modeling in the axe I set a modifier to control the input trim. Typically .5 for humbucker and 1 for single coil. That worked great too.
 
The reason why different pickups are different loud with different amps is because of the different EQing before, between and after the gain stages.

Take a modern amp as an example: The lows get cutten off or reduced before the gain stages to get a crisp and tight sound. With such a modern amp the different amount of lows in the pickups (neck more lows, Bridge less) don't make much of a difference, because they get erased. So the mids and highs make the sound here and they cause how loud it gets and the extra amount of lows from the neck pickup don't counts at all.

With a clean amp you might have it the other way round, you might have a boost and a compression of the lows to fatten up the tone. In that case different amounts of lows from the pickups make much of a difference. The lows of a neck pickup make a big difference here. You might hear more volume there and these also drive the gain stages into compression/overdrive, so they might limit some mids and highs.
 
FWIW, the Axe FX is just as much a 'Real Amp'. It just isn't a legacy or traditional amp. But, it IS a bonafide, real, guitar amp.
 
KW1234 said:
I have a balanced distortion sound done and when I switch to neck single coil from a bridge humbucker, I get significant increase in volume, at least 2-3 db.
Click to expand...

I have a Suhr S4 HSS with a SSV+ and the Fletcher Landau single coils. When the single coils are set to the minimal distance recommended by Suhr (1/8") and with the SSV+ set to it minimum distance the single coils have a definite increase in volume vs the humbucker (but sound so sweeeet).

So, I set/balance each type for best sound/level/even B/M/T across the strings, etc., since....

...if I try to balance the levels (by height adjustment) on the single coils to match the humbucker they sound anemic and thin. So, I've made presets for just the single coils whose overall levels match my humbucker presets. The presets are dialed in to optimize the single coil or humbucker tones to take full advantage of their differences in tone/output/sweet spot, etc. I do 'mix and match' pickups/presets at times, but I've just found that each type of pickup (single/humbucker) needs it's own presets/amp tweaks in general and works/sounds the best for me.

I also start with a clean amp and a balanced IR on the AX8/AFX II to adjust the pickups and then fine tune over several production presets since it's my main playing rig; I too have found that if I adjust pickups with my tube amp those adjustments don't translate optimally to the Fractal.

The interesting thing is the humbucker tickles the red level LED, and if I flip to the single coil pickups (with no other adjustment) they only light the first green LED (sometimes the second) but an increase in volume is apparent when I'm listening/playing...o_O
 
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You're saying you neck SC is louder than your bridge HB? I've never seen that happen with any rig unless the SC is hotter than the HB or the the pickup heights are misadjusted.

This isn't an Axe-Fx thing. Something's up with your guitar.
 
The single coils are pretty hot; the SSV+ is a slightly hotter PAF but has a medium/lower output overall. The SSH+ humbucker that was stock in the Suhr had way more output and could easily keep up with the Fletcher Landau single coils, volume wise.

When all pickups setup as per the Suhr's specs/guide for minimum pickup/polepiece starting heights yea, the single coils are louder then the SSV+. I don't like dropping the singles to match the humbucker level; lose too much body.

The single coils have a lot more bottom end and overall girth and affects the front end of the amp differently vs the humbucker . Don't know why the LEDs and perceived levels work like they do but my eyes and ears tell me that's what's going on.

Also the Suhr has several passive components on the switch to match the single coils/humbuckers to the optimum volume pot/impedance for each type (and switches in different caps for the tone control I think) which I suspect may account for some of the level effect.

At any rate, the level difference isn't too dramatic, but is noticeable with the pickup types and recommended starting heights on my Suhr...
 
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