Huge improvement with 2 FRFR cabs instead of one?

Shask said:
It seems like everyone in this thread loves this mostly because of the stereo effects. Would you still notice THAT big of a difference if you did not use any effects at all?
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And on this note... I used to run two different amps and cabs with not too many effects for the tone of it. Check out some early Ty Tabor (Kings X, The Jelly Jam). He did the same... and even ran 3 in a W/D/W setup. His live tone may be the best I have ever heard period.
 
Pinkycramps said:
At home practicing, (being a bedroom player) stereo is SO much more enjoyable. I actually prefer headphones above all else in that environment. There is nothing like jamming to tracks or recording or learning songs in quality cans for me. I can hear details that I would never otherwise hear. Oh how I wish I could ever get that on stage...
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I'm not a huge fan of headphones. Even when I'm doing recordings, I have my Friedman ASM-12 at my feet. LOL!

With all of this talk of mono and stereo, I guess I didn't have a full understanding of what I was even asking. You guys are right that there is a difference with two cabs and deciding to go mono or stereo. I didn't even think about the differences. I guess I was thinking more about the benefits of cab separation versus "stereo" or "mono" but you guys have brought up some great points. The ability to run two different cabs, or use the effects a certain way.

I guess the only thing I'd ask are what are the disadvantages to a true stereo setup versus mono when using two cabs?
 
Hmmm.... I play both stereo and mono at home. Stereo through a small mixer and powered monitors. Mono through various FRFR rigs. I never play stereo when gigging though because the PA is mono and so it seemed like only a stage sound benefit. May have to give a go when I play again.
 
You're going to hear 2784 different preferences but a few have mentioned vital details as to WHy they must run mono in a large setting, regardless of how many Cabs they got even though true stereo is preferred. That reason being the spread can be so wide that your sound can simply disappear in a mix. As a bedroom player, stereo is great but it can backfire on you IF you play loud because it's only at a certain point that the frequencies will collide and mush everything up. Try it and see
 
Billbill said:
You're going to hear 2784 different preferences but a few have mentioned vital details as to WHy they must run mono in a large setting, regardless of how many Cabs they got even though true stereo is preferred. That reason being the spread can be so wide that your sound can simply disappear in a mix. As a bedroom player, stereo is great but it can backfire on you IF you play loud because it's only at a certain point that the frequencies will collide and mush everything up. Try it and see
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Interesting. I'll have to give that a try down the road when I get a second FRFR cab. Thanks!
 
I sometimes feel the need to go more towards a mono signal for recording to get a grip on what I hear. But IMHO 2 cabs creates an impression similar to playing in a larger space. So its really a balance of these - being sure you don't overwhelm yourself with stereo fx, but get a bit of spatial ambience - definitely worth having the option.
 
Stereo with two much different sounds (2 cabs or so) can be great for playing rhythm, you can be louder in the mix, without rivaling the singer and the solos.
When playing solos it's the other way round. A larger stereo image is a bad idea than, you should not leave the center for others. Some stereo ambience is enough there.
You get the point, stereo is not simply better always and everywhere, there's things to consider.
 
Back when the dinosaurs roamed the Earth, I used a Peavey Profex and ran it into the effects return of 2 Peavey Bravos. I placed the Bravos about 3' apart on stage and miced the speakers with a pair of SM57's. It was easy to control the volume depending on whether the venue was big or small. FOH sounded great. Personally, I think stereo sounds better if you have the coin and the space.
 
I've been struggling with the two vs. one monitoring approach (I typically run stereo into the PA if it is available and makes sense). I always like the sound of two monitors, though its also when I've been standing in 1 spot with little movement.

This video from Dave Rat (FOH for Red Hot Chilli Peppers) makes me think running dissimilar speakers, or IRs panned hard make for a more consistent sound in a wide listening field. I was struck by this at a July 4th concert: moving from right to left in front of the PA was like listening to FOH sweep a filter across the whole mix. yuck.


-joe
 
jamongrande said:
I've been struggling with the two vs. one monitoring approach (I typically run stereo into the PA if it is available and makes sense). I always like the sound of two monitors, though its also when I've been standing in 1 spot with little movement.

This video from Dave Rat (FOH for Red Hot Chilli Peppers) makes me think running dissimilar speakers, or IRs panned hard make for a more consistent sound in a wide listening field. I was struck by this at a July 4th concert: moving from right to left in front of the PA was like listening to FOH sweep a filter across the whole mix. yuck.


-joe
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Thank you for sharing this!!!
 
Great video. I love Dave Rat's vids. I like using 2 different(yet similar) IR's and panning them hard. I think that's a great idea.
 
Tend to go to mono more and more. Stereo is not practical live and even recording is a risk due to phase cancelation.
Always test a recording mono before editing in stereo.
 
StickMan said:
I tried running output 2 to an external power amp, and then into my Marshall 4x12 cabinet - in addition to my two powered studio monitors. The side-wash from the 4x12 created an amazing, immersive sound. I highly recommend it, but wait until the wife goes out shopping first.
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Did the same thing. I set my Marshall cab up for stereo and it's killer.
 
Man, that video was great! It really makes sense to me now.

I always said one of the coolest tones I've heard is when someone has two cabs that are very different (Marshall and Mesa for example) and pans them away from the other. Now it makes so much sense why this is a great sounding tone. The frequencies of each cab is filling space missing from the other cab so you are never overwhelming a certain frequency.

This concept comes into play with recordings as well. Everyone talks about EVH's isolated tracks sounding too trebly, etc. but in a mix sound great. The bass and guitar are filling each instrument's missing frequencies.

Such a simple concept but amazing to see it explained. I guess the key is to run two cabs mono and have totally different IRs for each.
 
kingston said:
How will this work when you send that to FOH, how will the audience hear this?
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In short, they don't really, but the overall sound is better. I run in stereo, and send 2 XLR feeds to FOH. My cabs are not dramatically different. In fact they are pretty similar. I run 2 versions of a TV mix Marshall, essentially with 57's on 2 different speakers. I add a few ms of delay to one side (in the cab block), and pan hard left and right. People in the audience who are stage left or stage right will only hear one or the other... which would be indiscernible to them. People in the middle hear both, which sounds maybe a tiny bit wider and fuller... but really it just eliminates the phasing issues Dave talks about down the center.
 
Personally, and as an audio engineer, I think it's silly to pan hard L/R. I tend to pan on a clock 9/3 or 10/2. I like to mix where you can see the band on stage aurally. Drums in the center, piano left about 8/1. Bass center. But when you pan the guitar and the drum overheads hard L/R you lose the spatial integrity. The drums aren't that wide. Most engineers kind of groan when the guitar player says he wants it panned hard. They might give you the okie-doke and do what they want. But whatever. I'm not saying what's right/wrong. Just what I like. I like to be able to look at the stage, hear the sound and know exactly where it's coming from. But I might be more talking about mixing a recording. LOL.
 
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I thought you would have gotten a second ASM12 by now... For sure when you get your second ASM12 you will be saying why did I wait so long. Life's short. DO IT!!!

I still use WDW and agree mixing different cabs or even 1 out of the 3 or using 2 different heads and 2 different cabs just works.
 
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