Huge difference between FR/FR and PA

FractalAudio said:
Probably distorting the mixer. Most sound guys aren't smart enough to realize that the DI signal is line level, not mic level.
Click to expand...
Love this 10 times over. One showed me his iPad and said “look, I cant even move the mic pre, your signal is too hot”! I said good, its working as designed.
 
I don’t know why so many sound guys think the mic gain MUST be turned up. Most think 12 o clock has to be met to “sound right.” I keep the gain on any digital mixer to zero when connecting via XLR. Sounds exactly right.
 
If I was gigging, I'd create all my presets with outputs 1 and 2 in parallel, probably with EQs as the last block for each. That way I could separately control my FRFR stage volume and the send level to FOH, and even provide some EQ to the FOH engineer if he/she wanted it.
 
I find running line level to the house PA is generally asking for trouble. Sure, if the engineer is on the ball, he/she will check the level before, say, immediately sending it to the monitor wedges at 120dB, but...
 
Moshpet said:
Hey,

i have the problem that between my FRFR (Matrix Q12A) at home and our PA system for gigs at the weekend is a huge different what makes it really difficult to build sounds at home.
Every sound get much more distorted and crunchier. If it is a nice rock'n'roll tone with the FRFR, it turns into heavy metal at the pa.
Is there something i'm missing?
Thanks for the help.
Click to expand...

The one question I don't see asked above - what is your PA System? (you say it's 'ours', so assuming your band owns it).

My guess is that your PA has a mid range cut/gap or has a sizzly top end, and that is why you're tone translates to 'metal'.
My tone will sound rich and fill through my studio monitors....then I plug into a house speaker in one of the rooms we play, which is a JBL JRX system and holy crap will it sound like a sizzly pile of crap. Not all PA/FRFR speakers are created equal.
It has to do with how different these full range speakers were designed, built, tuned by the manufacturer.​

It's has nothing to do with FRFR vs. PA.
FRFR and PA are synonymous.
Good example - the beloved Atomic CLR (which we all refer to as FRFR for our Axe FXs)...well it was originally designed (per Jay Mitchell) as a PA speaker.​

BUT, there are some PA/FRFR manufacturers that tune their boxes to sound or feel more like a guitar cab....thus if you create your preset on these, it may or may not translate well on a different PA/FRFR speaker.
 
chris said:
I don’t know why so many sound guys think the mic gain MUST be turned up. Most think 12 o clock has to be met to “sound right.” I keep the gain on any digital mixer to zero when connecting via XLR. Sounds exactly right.
Click to expand...
I have a QSC TM16, and I do have to turn up the trim knob just a smidge to get the level right. I have the OUT1 knob set to 3:00. However I haven’t tried it with the band yet. I think I’ll try zero gain to see if I notice any difference.
 
DougB415 said:
I have a QSC TM16, and I do have to turn up the trim knob just a smidge to get the level right. I have the OUT1 knob set to 3:00. However I haven’t tried it with the band yet. I think I’ll try zero gain to see if I notice any difference.
Click to expand...
Same mixer for me. Gain is fully down, and my axe output is all the way up. Super consistent and great tone.

Edit - to clarify, I only turn output all the way up when I’m doing sound on my mixers. I know how to run it and not overload the mixer channel. When someone else is doing sound, I start at 9 o clock on the out knob because they tend to always have channel gain at 12 o clock or higher and just will not turn it down. 9 o clock is often the perfect setting for most gigs like that.
 
Last edited:
chris said:
Same mixer for me. Gain is fully down, and my axe output is all the way up. Super consistent and great tone.

Edit - to clarify, I only turn output all the way up when I’m doing sound on my mixers. I know how to run it and not overload the mixer channel. When someone else is doing sound, I start at 9 o clock on the out knob because they tend to always have channel gain at 12 o clock or higher and just will not turn it down. 9 o clock is often the perfect setting for most gigs like that.
Click to expand...
I used to set the out knob 2, (FOH) at 100% and ran into too hot of a signal going to certain boards. Now I keep my Out 2 knob setting at 50% for FOH. No more complaints and works perfect for pretty much all the consoles out there.
 
BBN said:
what are your PA speakers????
Click to expand...
Our PA Speakers Vary quite a bit, based on whether we are running our own sound, or a sound company was hired. Sometimes JBL SRX835, EV T52+, Ramsdell 15-X-SS, EAW JF59, and sometimes big arrays. I find cutting everything above 6 to 8k to FOH tames the HF drivers, and produces a more natural guitar sound. You can't rely on the engineer to EQ the way you like, as they are not all the same. So for me it's better to have a good starting point.
 
Look at the your main EQ on the X32 and cut and boost the frequencies on your channel of the mixer...…… also take your loudest preset to set the gain on the mixer then dial it back from there a bit.
 
Yup, I also keep my volume output low, ask for no eq, rev, comp, gain.
I think some think that if they get some distortion on the board, they are “helping” keepin it cool...
😬
 
Actually most PRO sound guys are smart enough. Too much signal to FOH is too much signal to FOH. There's no in between.
It may be more about the type of mixing board one has or uses.
If I turn my output 2 knob, that goes XLR to FOH, all the way up, my Midas M32 console shows red line, with gain knob all the way down. So I keep my output 2 knob on 50% and turn the gain on the console to where it's needed to achieve proper signal with slider on unity.
 
Tommy Tempest said:
Our PA Speakers Vary quite a bit, based on whether we are running our own sound, or a sound company was hired. Sometimes JBL SRX835, EV T52+, Ramsdell 15-X-SS, EAW JF59, and sometimes big arrays. I find cutting everything above 6 to 8k to FOH tames the HF drivers, and produces a more natural guitar sound. You can't rely on the engineer to EQ the way you like, as they are not all the same. So for me it's better to have a good starting point.
Click to expand...
Quality rigs, so not a problem there.
Based on everything else you noted about your gain structure, that doesn't seem to be the issue either.

This would lead me to the conclusion that the Matrix is not flat, and when you dial in presets on there, they're not translating well.
Do you have a set of decent studio monitors you can dial in presets on?
 
Sure sounds like clipping the mixer input to me considering your gain increases.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom