How good is Fractal Tone Matching?

Casimir

Casimir

Inspired
Has anyone tried tone matching on the AXE FX III for edge of breakup sounds? I think the amp models are excellent, but I am really curious if the tone matches can hold a candle to the excellent amp models. @Brian Wahl posted a preset pack using a tone match of a 3rd Power Dream Weaver. Usually I just dial in my own tones, but the idea of buying a pack with a tone match has me intrigued.
 
On further investigation, it looks like that pack is using the models to try and match the amp. It is not using the Tone Match block. Sounds like the FM3 can't load tone matches anyways, as the exports of tone matches are just IR files. I am still curious if that is a feature people utilize on the AXE FX III though, given how good the amp modeling is.
 
Casimir said:
On further investigation, it looks like that pack is using the models to try and match the amp. It is not using the Tone Match block. Sounds like the FM3 can't load tone matches anyways, as the exports of tone matches are just IR files. I am still curious if that is a feature people utilize on the AXE FX III though, given how good the amp modeling is.
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I believe the intended use is to capture any differences between your personal amp and the model on the AxeFX. For example, I've seen people use it to capture the difference between the recto sim and their personal recto revision.

I've also seen @2112 use it to capture the difference between one of the sims and an amp that was custom built for him that was similar in design.

It's a cool but fairly niche block at this point.
 
I bought a Tone Match preset pack from a Vendor on this site and It happens to be my best sounding Preset period.
It has 25 presets and they are all amazing period lol
 
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Casimir said:
Has anyone tried tone matching on the AXE FX III for edge of breakup sounds? I think the amp models are excellent, but I am really curious if the tone matches can hold a candle to the excellent amp models. @Brian Wahl posted a preset pack using a tone match of a 3rd Power Dream Weaver. Usually I just dial in my own tones, but the idea of buying a pack with a tone match has me intrigued.
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Tone matching is not for modeling amps. Tone matching is for capturing cabinets. It's not like a Kemper where you can profile edge of breakup sounds. On the Axe-FX you use the included amp models for that, not tone matching. In other words, find an amp model and settings to get the edge of breakup that you want. Use a cab block to get as close to the tone as possible, then use tone matching to get the cabinet even closer to the reference.
 
Casimir said:
Has anyone tried tone matching on the AXE FX III for edge of breakup sounds? I think the amp models are excellent, but I am really curious if the tone matches can hold a candle to the excellent amp models. @Brian Wahl posted a preset pack using a tone match of a 3rd Power Dream Weaver. Usually I just dial in my own tones, but the idea of buying a pack with a tone match has me intrigued.
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It’s $5.99 - buy it and try it! Then let us know :)
 
Casimir said:
I think the amp models are excellent, but I am really curious if the tone matches can hold a candle to the excellent amp models.
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Tone Match doesn't replace the Amp block. It's used in tandem with it.

Casimir said:
On further investigation, it looks like that pack is using the models to try and match the amp. It is not using the Tone Match block. Sounds like the FM3 can't load tone matches anyways, as the exports of tone matches are just IR files.
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That pack uses Tone Match IR's which were originally exported from a Tone Match block in the Axe-Fx III.

Casimir said:
I am still curious if that is a feature people utilize on the AXE FX III though, given how good the amp modeling is.
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I love Tone Matching and use it frequently. I've said it many times, but I think it's one of the most powerful tone-shaping features in the Axe-Fx III. It's primarily used to clone the frequency response of a signal.
 
It is my understanding that the more "processed" the tone is, the more difficult it is for tone matching to nail it on the head. Think about the tone match trying to sync up the effects of a Wah pedal or a delay!! It boggles the mind of the tone match!!

The IR's that you see, rather than the TMA block, are because that tone match was exported as an IR. Once you have a good tone match, you can export that match and take the TMA block out and put in an IR Player block or a Cab block. In each one of these scenarios, you call up the tone match that you exported as an IR. I believe the TMA block is there for creating the tone match for the most part, you then use normal signal chain blocks to utilize that exported tone match.
 
I would also like to know if anyone has used this to tone match a pedal (through a clean amp, of course). I have a Missing Link Audio Peacock pedal that nails the Duane Allman Fillmore East sound. I haven't used Tone Match before, but I'm curious if it would work.
 
ltarlton said:
I would also like to know if anyone has used this to tone match a pedal (through a clean amp, of course). I have a Missing Link Audio Peacock pedal that nails the Duane Allman Fillmore East sound. I haven't used Tone Match before, but I'm curious if it would work.
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Tone Match replicates the frequency response of a signal. It cannot replicate time-based effects, distortion, etc.
 
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Jason Scott said:
Tone Match replicates the frequency response of a signal. It cannot replicate time-based effects, distortion, etc.
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Time-based effects I understand. However, I've seen Leon Todd use Tone Match to match an amp block to one of his amps that was distorted.
So I think your assumption about not being able to match a distorted sound might be incorrect. What is distortion? It is basically one of two types of clipping (soft or hard), which is a non-linear process that produces frequencies not originally present in the audio signal. These frequencies can be harmonic overtones, meaning they are whole number multiples of one of the signal's original frequencies, or "inharmonic", resulting from general intermodulation distortion. It might not be as simple as the Neural Capture feature, but I believe it can be done.
 
ltarlton said:
Time-based effects I understand. However, I've seen Leon Todd use Tone Match to match an amp block to one of his amps that was distorted.
So I think your assumption about not being able to match a distorted sound might be incorrect.
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Leon tone-matched the tone stack from an amp, not the tube distortion. He used an amp block to get the amp emulation, not a tone match. Jason Scott is not incorrect :). You can't emulate non-linear behavior, for example distortion, with a tone match.
 
As has been already corrected above, tone matching is for frequency response only in the Axe-FX. You can get your distortion from the amp, drive and a few other blocks.

Also, distortion is not just "one of two types, soft or hard clipping". There are many other types such as dynamic (changes with input content and changing over time), different input/output curves, blocking, fuzz waveform mangling, etc.
 
GM Arts said:
As has been already corrected above, tone matching is for frequency response only in the Axe-FX. You can get your distortion from the amp, drive and a few other blocks.

Also, distortion is not just "one of two types, soft or hard clipping". There are many other types such as dynamic (changes with input content and changing over time), different input/output curves, blocking, fuzz waveform mangling, etc.
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I figured since we are discussing audio distortion in terms of "musicality", clipping, ie., amplitude/harmonic distortion is what we are discussing. Of course there are other types: phase, frequency response, harmonic, etc. I've never heard of "fuzz waveform mangling" distortion.
 
ltarlton said:
I figured since we are discussing audio distortion in terms of "musicality", clipping, ie., amplitude/harmonic distortion is what we are discussing. Of course there are other types: phase, frequency response, harmonic, etc. I've never heard of "fuzz waveform mangling" distortion.
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He's obviously missing a comma :). Fuzz is a common distortion effect. Wave shaping is another common type of distortion.
 
GlennO said:
He's obviously missing a comma :). Fuzz is a common distortion effect. Wave shaping is another common type of distortion.
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Yeah, I know the types of distortion pedals, such as overdrive, fuzz, FET, asymmetrical/symmetrical, etc. My point is audio signal distortion, or any signal distortion for that matter, occurs due to signal integrity issues. I've been talking distortion in terms of physical properties of audio signals.
 
ltarlton said:
Yeah, I know the types of distortion pedals, such as overdrive, fuzz, FET, asymmetrical/symmetrical, etc. My point is audio signal distortion, or any signal distortion for that matter, occurs due to signal integrity issues. I've been talking distortion in terms of physical properties of audio signals.
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The answer is still the same :). Non-linear behavior cannot be captured by tone matching.
 
GlennO said:
The answer is still the same :). Non-linear behavior cannot be captured by tone matching.
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OK. I haven't messed with the Tone Match block yet, so I was wondering from a low-level perspective what the capabililities are. It would be nice one day to have a capture block like the Neural does (even though I'm a Fractal fan, not a QC fan). I would love to be able to capture my pedal collection.
 
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