How do you write?

M

mike86325

Member
Since there's no shortage of talent and knowledge on this forum, I figured this would be a good place to ask - I've been playing guitar for about 10 years, but never really learned theory outside of knowing the major scale, where notes are, etc. I've never had much of a problem coming up with riffs or ideas, but have always struggled stringing them into songs or sometimes finding that perfect next chord or note for a riff. Now with the axe fx, I'm dedicated to learning theory in hopes it will help guide me as I start to get serious about putting together my own recordings.

So my question is how do those that know theory write their songs? Do you start with a chord progression you like and then expand on it? Or do you just "noodle" around until you come up with something you like? And at which point (and this may be what I struggle with most), how do you use theory to expand or finish an idea?

Thank you in advance to everyone!
 
This is a really neat approach. It would work for lesser aggressive styles of music also.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlGlv01caSA
 
I'm often noodling around until I find something I like that doesn't sound like anything I know, which I than expand with next parts that I "hear" in my head. That would be a "target" approach.

Another approach that worked well for me and our songwriting is to combine few independent riffs, like one "main riff" kind with a "chorus" one, not originally made for each other. This can result with very interesting developments in songs. If our bass player or other member of the band also have some own ideas, we try to incorporate that too somewhere. This would be a "lucky match" approach.

The third one that happens a lot to me is to play with certain effects like delay, flanger, phaser, pitch and at some point the preset "dictates" me what to play. The ideas come than naturally.

Obviously, the "musical theory" approach I don't apply at all. I think that the songs sound to mechanical this way, absent of "magic". Good songs sound mostly good because of a "lucky punch" and the right match of the parts. The best parts we made where actually "mistakes" while noodling or rehearsing.
 
One thing you can do to get you started which is something I did when I was younger, is draw or find a fretboard you can print out, draw the strings and all that, and then pick a scale you don't know and then put a dot everywhere on the fretboard where the notes in that scale are. highlight the root notes. Then, it's really easy to just look at the drawing and play notes only in that scale. You can write really cool riffs too because you'll never hit a wrong note. Then after you've written some riffs you can then solo over it because you can just use your drawing again. You can see how far bends need to go in order to hit target notes too.
 
"The only way you can get good, unless you're a genius, is to copy. That's the best thing. Just steal."

-Ritchie Blackmore

"On the Classic Albums series episode about Machine Head, Ritchie Blackmore claimed that friends of the band were not fans of the classic "Smoke on the Water" riff, because they thought it was too simplistic. Blackmore retaliated by making comparisons to the first movement of Beethoven's 5th Symphony, which revolves around a similar four note arrangement."



in summary: Find something you like, and tweak it to death. (edit: to get ideas)
 
First of all, great idea for a thread, I hope we get some more input, I'm always curious about how others create.

What follows are certainly not hard fast rule. These are just the mechanisms I've come to use to streamline my own creative process after years of trial and error. YMMV.



Writing music or words is all about asking the right questions. Ask the right question, then restate the question in the answer.

Think in the most explicit terms possible. State your purpose. Refine the statement. Test and retry.

I'll try and flesh this out with hypotheticals to better explain what I mean.

What emotion are you trying to convey? Hurt, anger, longing, loss, rejection, regret etc.....ok...what does that emotion "sound" like....

Lets say in this first example it is a feeling that inspires the process. You choose loss, you're writing something about losing something...a person, a pet, a girl, a car, a guitar whatever....

What's your universal statement? i.e. I've experienced loss and it hurts, but pain can make us stronger and help us help others

how do you make this resonate with someone else? How do you take your universal concept and make it resonate on the individual level i.e. loss effects me specifically in this way:

"When ____ was taken from me, it made me feel like I wasn't alive, like my skin was wrapped around something dead, like my heart and soul had been torn apart, I never wanted to have to feel anything again"

Now make it more precise. Condense it. Make as explicit as possible. Always say the most with the least.

"When ____ was taken from me, I was dead inside my calloused skin, an empty heart torn apart, I never wanted to feel again"

How does that sound? What chords, rhythms, melodies or sounds help express that. What soundscape takes you to that place.
Now give that statement life. Make this real to the listener. What did it sound like, smell like, look like.... what was it like being alive wanting to be numb? How did it effect your day to day life, your mindset, your relationships with other people?

I felt like no one could reach me, utterly alone, I just couldn't believe that I'd lost the chance to experience life with _________.

Condense.

"Unreachable in broken state, unthinkable that twisted fate, could blanket cold and lasting calm the memories that I'd counted on."

What's the next question here? The right question? For me in this instance, the next thing I'd want to know from the writer is how did you deal with that?

From here, you just keep asking the right question, build a chorus around your universal principle. The verse is where you relate it on an individual level. Bridges tend to be good places to wax philosophic.

If you have writers that you like, look up their songs and try to determine the implied questions that lead you from one line to the next because whether or not they're aware of it (some people just have really natural flow) they are asking themselves questions. You'll begin to see a pattern of thought, of how they work through a subject. A good story teller is seldom interrupted by questions because they will answer them before they can be asked. Which brings me to this: sometimes the right question is what does this make you think of next, but sometimes, imagine youre the listener...if you knew nothing about the story you were telling...what would you want to know? What details might make this easier to relate to or help with imagery.....or maybe In what order would you want to know it?


Music can be done the exact same way.

You have a riff, you want to write the next riff, just start throwing out words until you arrive at a phrase, then uncover the statement statement....

This riff sounds like violence.....like a fight....but it's personal....this riff sounds like fighting someone you've known.....someone you have history with....someone who has slighted you....and its fresh in your mind.....you really don't like this person. Condense it.

This riff sounds like you're finally beating the shit out of someone you hate. That's a pretty good universal statement. Everyone can get a pull on that. So how did you come to meet this person, how'd they cross you....what does that sound like....fast and aggressive, open, empty, was it tense in the beginning? The end? Did it start out good...etc etc. Then create the soundscape. A lot of the time if you can just be open to it, in addition to helping you with the next riff they can also do a lot of the actual writing for you.

Or maybe this riff sounds like missing someone.....but kind melancholy....like smiling because of the pain.....like maybe there's a shade regret....there's hurt...but its not all pain....it sounds like it hurts because you once cared about this person a great deal.

Condense.

This riff sounds like regretting how you treated an a past love.

Is that a universal statement, or an individual revelation? Both? Quick sell that shit to kanye and cash in!

Now start asking the right questions.

How'd it start, how good were the good times, how bad were the bad times....did you fuck up? Did she/he? How so? Were the consequences permanent? Did you learn anything from this experience? Do you ever dream of a second chance? Did it change the way you treated people in the future? Did it change you both or just you or just him/her? Is that why it would never work now?

What do those things sound like to you? What chords, melodies and sounds make those emotions real?

Writing both words and music is intensely personal and I know not everything works for every body but I hope this helps.

Good luck!
 
I - IIIminor-II-V

The above "formula", arranged in 1000,000 different ways is what populates the charts. Apparently, if you don't use it, you won't get a hit. Sad. I think it was Axis of Awesome that did a fun video on it proving that 4-chord songs are what's needed to write a hit!

Edit: Found it!

[video]www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOlDewpCfZQ[/video]
 
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It's also great to have jam sessions where you just play and improvise. Record it, save the better parts for future reference and trash the rest. You can build a library of riffs this way and when you need something to put together a song pull them out and listen
 
I'm surprised that basically everyone has said they don't use theory to stitch together ideas or find that right chord to transition, expand a riff, etc. The advice everyone is sharing has been awesome so far, let's keep it going!

Regarding the I-V-vi-IV video, that ties exactly into where I'm stuck. Personally, I've always loved more complex, interesting rhythms, but never figured out how to write a song from them. For instance, I can play a few van halen and extreme songs, but I'm always more blown away by the writing ability of eddie and nuno than anything. A lot of times, I'll come up with a cool and unique sounding idea only to hit a brick wall where it seems like these guys always know what chord to hit next to maintain fluidity and add to the song. In example, we all have probably heard "panama", I'd probably get an idea like the first few bars, but then be lost on where to go after that pick slide. At one point I decided I have to just go back to basics and focus on writing a very simple 4-chord type progression. Sure enough, I came up with the one in the video. I thought I had an awesome song idea until I looked up the progression and realized why.

Using that I-V-vi-IV pattern as a baseline for discussion though, how would you go about building on a song that contained that progression? Say your verse is that pattern, would you just take random stabs at chords in that key for the chorus until something felt right?
 
Sometimes it starts with a melody, and sometimes it starts somewhere else. Make a recording of ideas that pop into your head and review them every once and awhile. Never let theory get in the way. Eventually, you'll collect enough aggregate that you can refine it into something good.
 
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90% me just jacking around with my guitar, 10% I thought of something cool in wal-mart and recoded myself humming into my phone.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
music theory is just a tool you use when you need, makes it easier to understand whats going on in the song...helps in moments when you get stuck or there is certain sound yiu wanna achieve would help you get there faster but its not going to make you write better songs...imho
 
Someone once said that the only thing music theory is good for is analyzing and understanding music after it has been written. I think to some extent that is true. But i have always found a 'chord family' 'wheel' to be a handy tool to have in front of you while looking for that chord you hear in your head but can't quite place, or as a way to define a palate of colors to choose from, for the key you are writing in. There are tons of chord wheeels in various forms on-line, and this is just the first one i ran across...
Kevin Boone's Web site

but i actually prefer a real chord 'wheel' such as the following:
http://www.ianchadwick.com/essays/ukulele/chord_wheel.pdf
With this you make something that is reminiscent of a 'slide rule' from the old days.
 
I know theory, but I usually only bother applying it when I get stuck, because I've found my best songs (fan favorites) come from dumb luck.

I also play a little piano too, which helps when trying to come up with ideas, but seriously, the best stuff always seems to hit me when I'm not even trying to write.

Every once in a while I'll come up with something good, and won't know where to take it for the bridge, or whatever, so I'll reference "the rules" just to see if it produces something that sounds interesting.


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Modern pop music songwriting in a nutshell:

- take a 90's classic
- sample whatever is recognizable of it
- add a generic clap/kick track
- add "put your hands up in the air!"
- add "ma niggas, yo hoes, dat booty!"
- autotune the chorus
- profit

Modern rock music songwriting in a nutshell:

- take a random 'The Who'-song
- cover it
- profit


Edit:
Bonus Round!
Modern radio-friendly music songwriting in a nutshell:

- Play 4 chords on acoustic guitar
- Add a clap/kick track
- Hire a guy with the most generic voice possible
- Write about how your girlfriend broke up with you
- Let him sing the chorus in falsetto, because he is oh so sensitive!
- profit


Or:
- Use this: http://nickbriz.com/blog/?p=171
- then commit suicide
 
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