How do you set up scenes to switch between real amp preamp & FM9 preamp...

[The Prophet 5150]

Hello Everyone,

Using an amp head with an effects loop, how would I organise the blocks (what would I bypass etc) so that I could switch switch scenes between:

Scene 1: Real amp preamp
Scene 2: FM9 amp model
Scene 3: Real amp preamp
etc
etc

Initially I am wanting to be able to match the FM9 amp model to my real amp...but that got me thinking about other ways to integrate (I am ok with the physical routing of 4CM).

Cheers!

 

[Greg Ferguson]

Here's a quick and dirty example…

Scene 1:

Scene 2:


Out 3 > In 3 is the effects loop. See p. 36 in the manual for how I'd start wiring it together.

1. Plug your guitar into IN 1 on the FM9. That signal routes through any pre-effects and then splits into a parallel path, routing to both the Amp block and to OUT 3 on the FM9's back panel which routes to the guitar amp's main input. Preferably use a Humbuster cable but a good quality TS guitar cable will work.
2. The tube amp's FX send returns to the FM9's IN 3, and that signal will appear in the In 3 block in Scene 1 (in the attached preset) and continue on to the GEQ where you can fine-tune the pre-amp's sound. A good quality TS cable will work, it's not a Humbuster circuit.
3. The GEQ lets the preamp's signal be massaged if needed.
4. The M-Plex block allows selecting between either path. Scene 1 in the attached preset listens to row 2, and scene 2 listens to row 3. If you have additional scenes adjust between channels A and B as necessary. Also, the M-Plex is important because parallel paths that skip around other blocks result in "fun" behavior like sudden level/volume changes if they're not muted.
5. The Amp block is where some magic occurs. We can't split the Amp block into two, a separate modeled preamp and power amp, but we can use the Tube Pre model to act as a null-preamp so effectively it's a power-amp block only. (See Cliff's comment below.) Scenes that use the tube amp need to use channel A in the Amp block. Scenes that want to use the Fractal's full modeling are set up normally, using whatever amp type you want.
6. The sound continues to the Cab block, through post-effects then to Out 1.

I think that's all you need to wire in the tube amp and switch it in and out.

If a simulated power amp without preamp is desired, for example when using an external preamp, use the Tube Pre amp model, with its tone controls set at default, and make sure that its power amp is enabled.

"Yes, the Tube Pre model is neutral." [18]

NOTE: I made no attempt to make the preset sound good, it's just a template basically.

 

[sprint]

Here's a variation of the sample preset I posted yesterday in another similar thread here, but with an additional scene:

Scene1 - External Revv G3 preamp pedal with the channel A "tube pre" amp model acting as its power amp (updated with Revv-Purple2 model character).
Scene2 - All-In-The_Box Revv Purple2 channel B amp model (loop off).

This one does not use an M-Plex block as above, just straight through Output3>Input3 - when input3 is off on scene 2, the loop is off and we are switched over to channel B on the amp block (Revv-Purple2).

(Note: PostEQ on the external pre in scene 1 can be accomplished using the Tube-Pre's input or output EQ tabs (as opposed to a separate EQ block after the loop input, but the separate EQ may offer more control post external pre, and pre power amp).

Easy Peasy! (many ways to skin the cat)

Edit: Further Notes:

• my global audio setup page config values:
  • Output3: "SumL+R",
  • Output3 Pad: "6Db", (The Output3 "boost/pad" set to 6db on output3 provides some noise floor reduction with the active loop but also allowing sufficient headroom before clipping on Output3 (in case I want to operate a boost model through output3 to push the front of an external physical preamp).
  • Input3: "Left Only".
• In these type patches, only mono config'd blocks should be placed before the loop output (3 in this case), and Amp Blocks - stereo is introduced at the Cab block. Only the left side of loop3 is being used here (1 cable from AxfxOUT3L to G3 Pedal In, 1 cable from G3 Pedal Out to Axfx-IN3L).

 

[Deadpool_25]

Here's a variation of the sample preset I posted yesterday in another similar thread here, but with an additional scene:

Scene1 - External Revv G3 preamp pedal with the channel A "tube pre" amp model acting as its power amp (updated with Revv-Purple2 model character).
Scene2 - All-In-The_Box Revv Purple2 channel B amp model (loop off).

This one does not use an M-Plex block as above, just straight through Output3>Input3 - when input3 is off on scene 2, the loop is off and we are switched over to channel B on the amp block (Revv-Purple2).

(Note: PostEQ on the external pre in scene 1 can be accomplished using the Tube-Pre's input or output EQ tabs (as opposed to a separate EQ block after the loop input, but the separate EQ may offer more control post external pre, and pre power amp).

Easy Peasy! (many ways to skin the cat)

View attachment 132529
View attachment 132531

If you run out 3 > in 3, won't the guitar signal run straight from in 1 to the amp block regardless of bypass states for out 3 and in 3? Or does one of those have a bypass state? I can't remember but I feel like I tried that and it didn't work quite right?

 

[sprint]

If you run out 3 > in 3, won't the guitar signal run straight from in 1 to the amp block regardless of bypass states for out 3 and in 3? Or does one of those have a bypass state? I can't remember but I feel like I tried that and it didn't work quite right?

Has always worked well for me.

When OUTPUT3 is cabled on the grid into INPUT3:

• Bypassing the input3 block mutes the loop signal but engages the internal thru signal (the signal hitting output3)
• Engaging the input3 block mutes the internal thru signal and engages the looped signal (the signal hitting input3 from physical cables patched to input3).

The same works for loops2,4

From the manual (though a bit confusingly worded for my brain):



This is, I think the simplest way to set it up and the typical method I use. I only go to MUX or MIXER when I want to regulate what's returned by the loop (i.e. I have a Freqout in loop4 where I use a mixer to regulate the level of the loop's return signal into the main path with a modifier/expression pedal).

 

[Deadpool_25]

Has always worked well for me.

When OUTPUT3 is cabled on the grid into INPUT3:

• Bypassing the input3 block mutes the loop signal but engages the internal thru signal (the signal hitting output3)
• Engaging the input3 block mutes the internal thru signal and engages the looped signal (the signal hitting input3 from physical cables patched to input3).

The same works for loops2,4

From the manual (though a bit confusingly worded imo):

View attachment 132582

This is, I think the simplest way to set it up and the typical method I use. I do go to MUX or MIXER when I want to regulate what's returned (i.e. I have a Freqout in loop4 where I use a mixes to regulate the return signal into the main path with a modifier/expression pedal).

Ahhh. The last sentence explains it. Cool.

 

[The Prophet 5150]

Thanks guys - appreciate your time and support! Off to rock!