How can I make amp models more... punchy?

elvis

elvis

Power User
I've done a lot of A/B with real amps and models. Here is an example:
https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/slo-30-preset.211682/

I can generally get into the ballpark with tone, but I struggle to get the model to have the punch/dynamics os the real amp. I generally turn knobs on the basic amp page, but lately I have also changed the speaker impedance to get closer to what I hear with the amp.

What else could I use to make the amp response POP?
 
I run the real amp and model at exactly the same volume. Otherwise they sound different even if they're not different.
 
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elvis said:
Neither with a guitar cabinet. I use a load box with the amp and run it in the FM9 loop. So everything is exactly the same between the amp and model other than the load box. I use the same IR and effects.
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Which load box?

Are you setting the Impedance curve to be of the same/similar load box?

Your real amp interacts with it.
 
Suhr Reactive Load. I've tried a variety of speaker impedances in the amp models. They seem to alter frequency response but not so much the dynamics. It is a powerful tool for sure, but so far I haven't gotten that "punch you in the face" feel.
 
elvis said:
Suhr Reactive Load. I've tried a variety of speaker impedances in the amp models. They seem to alter frequency response but not so much the dynamics. It is a powerful tool for sure, but so far I haven't gotten that "punch you in the face" feel.
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Punch you in the face feel can’t happen without volume. Don’t use any compression but there’s no getting around moving air.
 
Have you tried putting a Gate/Expander somewhere after the Amp block, sidechained to Input 1?

From the Blocks Guide:
The Gate/Expander is sort of a “reverse compressor” that can be used to increase the difference between louder sounds and softer sounds by lowering the volume of soft sounds even further. When it is set to completely silence incoming signals below a certain threshold, the expander is called a gate.
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Raise the output Level to compensate for the reduced volume of soft sounds.

Also, reducing the gain in the Amp block will help improve the dynamics because the audio isn't being compressed as much.

And make sure your power amp has sufficient headroom to cleanly handle the "pop".
 
To my mind this approach is a bit cart before horse :)

Wouldn't it be better to connect the FM9 in the SLO-30 effect loop (or 4CM, guitar into input 1 FM9, FM9 out 1 into SLO-30 input, SLO-30 effect loop via FM9 input 2 and back etc. if you want some of the FM9 effects in front of the amp), then out from the SLO-30 into the Suhr Reactive Load, then into whatever cab you're using.

Then you can do an A/B with the FM9 (SLO Model) into a power amp into the same cab.
 
skolacki said:
Punch you in the face feel can’t happen without volume. Don’t use any compression but there’s no getting around moving air.
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I get more punch with the real amp. I run both at the exact same volume. It's definitely NOT a "you must play louder" thing. I've A/B'd MANY amps and models this way. I have gotten amp models to sound VERY like the real amp. The dynamics are the thing that has eluded me.
 
Agreed with the points about needing volume in general, monitoring through a poweramp and cab, and reducing gain (including master volume on most models) will get some of the visceral feeling back, whether thump from the low end or midrange punch. A lot of the parameters in the amp blocks speaker tab can help, such as SS+cab setting (regardless of how you monitor), reducing speaker compression and speaker breakup (I kind of think speaker thump as well, as I don't necessarily hear more thump but the mids and trebles being slightly pulled back to emphasize low end). Even the speaker impedance setting can give the impression of more dynamic bottom end.

All that said, I'm of the mind that the overall modeling and dynamics of Fractal and modeling units in general are purposefully more compressed (though to varying degrees and musicality) when compared to a raw amp (through a guitar cab and speaker). We're definitely in an era in which gear is increasingly designed to be a relatively simple solution for recording and live sound; all of the processing that was once the realm of soundmen is baked into the modeling.
 
WhiteRoom said:
To my mind this approach is a bit cart before horse :)

Wouldn't it be better to connect the FM9 in the SLO-30 effect loop (or 4CM, guitar into input 1 FM9, FM9 out 1 into SLO-30 input, SLO-30 effect loop via FM9 input 2 and back etc. if you want some of the FM9 effects in front of the amp), then out from the SLO-30 into the Suhr Reactive Load, then into whatever cab you're using.

Then you can do an A/B with the FM9 (SLO Model) into a power amp into the same cab.
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There seems to be some confusion here. I have this setup:

Guitar -> FM9 Instrument in
FM9 OUT3 -> Amp input
Amp speaker out -> Suhr Reactive Load
Reactive Load Line Out -> FM9-IN3
FM9 Out1 (stereo) -> Pair of Adam A7X

I simply switch back and forth between an amp model and Loop 3. No guitar cab at all. Not high volume. Reasonable volume for my home studio. Certainly enough for the amp to be punchy. Which it is.

The real amp is punchier. That's just how it is. Literally everything besides the Suhr load is apples-apples.
 
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