How 2 Re-Amp and Hear Backing Track at The Same Time?

willowdale

willowdale

Fractal Fanatic
I know Cliff has not gotten his head wrapped around how to implement this feature yet, but i know there is a workaround. What is/are my options??

I have a iMac i7 Quad core that also runs Windows 7 (I also have a Windows PC)

I have Logic,Reaper, Guitar Tracks Pro 4, Garageband etc...

Axe-Fx II , Apogee Duet(orig), Rokit 8 Monitors

I connect the Axe Fx with USB mostly, but also have a midi-uno that i use sometimes with Logic.

What do i need to do to hear the backing track when re-amping? Do i need to buy something else?

Please give me the version "For Dummies"

Your help is appreciated because this is a must have feature for me!!
 
here's a lil' thing I wrote in another thread not so long ago...

my guess would therefore be something like this [once the dry track is recorded]:
- playback the dry track and route it to the AxeII
- AxeII wet signal is routed to the DAW via the USB
- The channel in the DAW recording the AxeII wet signal is routed to the master output of the DAW along with the rest of the mix
- The DAW’s master output is routed to your main audio interface so that you can hear the AxeII’s wet signal as it is being recorded / auditioned. This way you’ll get to hear it in the mix.
I guess this means that you’ll need to create an aggregate audio interface [in the Mac’s ‘audio/midi settings’ utility] so that you can select simultaneously the AxeII to record / playback from / to, and select your main audio interface for monitoring.
 
Thanks! I will try this

Anyone else doing it a different way?

Cliff, please figure out an easy workable way to do this!!
 
Unfortunately, this is the only way if you want to use the Axe audio interface.
Right now it simply is not capable of being a full-on stand-alone audio interface.

With respect to the list of things in my previous post, if you need help with that maybe some of us here can walk you through it blow by blow.
It’s not as difficult as it sounds.

Seeing this from your original post: Please give me the version "For Dummies"
How about we give you a version for someone that’s never done it before instead?

Q – do you understand what an aggregate interface is and why you need to create one?

Q – do you know how to create an aggregate interface on a Mac?
If not, don’t worry, it’s really simple. This takes just a couple of clicks to set up and a then few more clicks to select in Logic.
 
If all else fails, remember you can always reamp by running the dry track to the rear input.
 
I'm wondering actually if it'd be worth going through all this blow by blow anyhow for folk [not just the OP] that are unsure about how all this works
 
clarky said:
Q – do you understand what an aggregate interface is and why you need to create one?

Q – do you know how to create an aggregate interface on a Mac?
If not, don’t worry, it’s really simple. This takes just a couple of clicks to set up and a then few more clicks to select in Logic.
Click to expand...


I did setup an aggregate on my Mac but I could use a walk through with getting everything working in Logic. Thanks
 
Here goes.... and note, I don't have any of the kit in this solution apart from the Mac and Logic..
my set up is very different to yours so I'll try as best I can....

The Audio Interface [AI] is simply a device that enables you to get audio into and out of your computer. You have two of them, one is your Duet and the other resides within the AxeII. Both of them use USB to connect to the Mac and 1/4" jack cables to connect to other audio sources [guitars, mics, keys, fx-units] and destinations [monitors, fx-units, headphones etc].

Reamping is a two stage processes:
1 - you record the dry performance
2 - you use the recorded dry performance to play through an amp / fx-unit and record the 'wet' audio generated by the amp / fx-unit

whilst you are recording the dry performance you will want to:
- not actually hear the dry signal
- hear the wet signal [just like playing through your AxeII normally]
- hear the music you are playing along with

whilst you are reamping you will want to:
- not actually hear the dry signal
- hear the wet signal
- hear the music that the wet signal is playing along with [so you can mess with / improve it before committing to a recording]

Recording the dry signal USB channel requirements:
1 USB channel into the Mac to record the dry guitar
2 USB channels into the Mac or AI to allow the wet signal to sound within or along side the mix
2 USB channels out of the Mac to monitor the entire mix
with respect to the AI devices, you need a total of 2 in [from the Mac] and 3 out [to the Mac]

Recording the reamped signal USB channel requirements:
1 USB channel out of the Mac to get to the AxeII [to be the source audio as if it were a guitar playing through it]
2 USB channels from the AxeII into the Mac to record the AxeII's wet signal
2 USB channels out of the Mac to send the entire mix to the monitors
with respect to the AI devices, you need a total of 3 in [from the Mac - dry and entire mix] and 2 out [to the Mac - AxeII]

this is why most folks opt for a 4x4 external AI. It gives you enough channels in and out of the Mac.

Your audio interfaces [AI's]:
Deut:
2 in [cables] and therefore 2 out USB
4 out [cables] and therefore 4 in USB

AxeII:
2 in USB from Mac
4 out USB to Mac
with respect to cables there are multiple connections and selectable input and output options.

As you can see, neither of the individual AI's has enough in's and out's to handle reamping.
But if you use them together they do. Combining multiple AI's to create one big one is called creating an 'aggregate interface'.

Creating an Aggregate Interface:
open the Audio MIDI settings app [applications->utilities->audio MIDI Setup.app]
at the top of the window select Audio Devices. In here you can see the currently selected AI that is used as the Default Input and Default Output.
To create the Agg AI click on 'Audio' in the bar at the top of the screen and select 'open aggregate device editor'
this opens another window with a list of all recognised AI's.
click the '+' button to create a new one - you can double click on it to rename it to something more meaningful [ie: DuetAxe].
This next part is important - the order that the individual AI's are selected effects the input and output numbers in Logic.
You will be monitoring via the Duet USB channels 1-2 so tick 'use' on the Duet first, then tick 'use' for the AxeII.
Click 'done'.
Open Logic, and select this Agg AI [go to the bar at the top of the screen and click Logic Pro - then->Preferences->Audio]
This opens a new window where you can click on 'Device' and see all of your AI's including your Agg AI 'DuetAxe'.
Select 'DuetAxe' and then click 'apply changes'. Logic will go off and think about this for a a little less then a minute or so and then you're done.

Logic's channel strip inputs and outputs with an Agg AI:
As the Duet is your first AI, the numbering starts from here.
Inputs 1 and 2 are the Duet USB outs 1 and 2
Inputs 3 and 4 are the AxeII USB outs 0 and 1
Outputs 1 through 4 are the Duet's USB ins 1 through 4
Outputs 5 through 8 are the AxeII's USB ins 0 through 3

By default, the Logic channel strip called Out 1-2 is the master stereo out of the entire mix
this therefore uses out 1-2 which is USB in 1-2 on the Duet [and goes to your monitors]

Recording the dry:
create a mono audio channel strip and set the input to 7 [USB 2 out from the AxeII - your dry signal]
set this channel strip's output to 'no output' so you can't hear it in the mix.
I don't know enough about the AxeII yet to walk you through the settings to assign the dry to AxeII USB out2 - take a look at the manual.

create a stereo channel strip to playback the wet signal from the AxeII
set it's input to 5-6 [the USB outs 0-1 of the AxeII]
set it's output to Out 1-2 [so it plays to the master output with the rest of the mix.
I don't know enough about the AxeII yet to walk you through the settings to assign the stereo wet AxeII USB out 0-1 - take a look at the manual.

Arm recording on your 'dry' channel strip, play and record.
You are now recording just the dry signal and hearing the wet in the mix but not recording it.

after recording, disarm the dry channel strip to prevent recording over your performance.

Reamping:
set the output of your 'dry' channel strip to output 5 [AxeII USB in 0]
this sends the dry out to the AxeII.
I don't know enough about the AxeII yet to walk you through the settings to assign the AxeII USB in 0 to by the dry input - take a look at the manual.

set the input of your 'wet' channel strip to input 5-6 [the AxeII USB out 0-1]
I don't know enough about the AxeII yet to walk you through the settings to assign the AxeII Out1 L+R to USB out 0-1 - take a look at the manual.
arm the 'wet' channel strip and record.
the signal flow should be something like this:
- dry from Logic out 5 -> AxeII in 0 [this is 'playing the AxeII]
- wet Out 1 L+R from the AxeII USB 0-1 -> Logic input 5-6 [wet is being recorded]
- wet channel strip output 1-2 joins the rest of the mix at the master channel strip
- Logic master out 1-2 to the Duet -> monitors

Latency: I reckon there may be some here...
so long as there is no latency when you record the original dry track you'll be fine.
if there is latency when you record the reamped wet signal we can deal with it after it's been recorded.
you can cut a little space out of the recorded audio's region with the scissor tool [less than one beat is more than enough]
so maybe cut out beat 2 to beat 3 of the first bar [where this is no music, just the count in - cos you should never start the music bar 1 beat 1, always leave an empty bar at the front].
Then:
- zoom the arrange window width ways
- set the 'snap' to 'ticks'
- drag the region back a little, listen, if still out, drag a little more etc until you've corrected / compensated for the delay.

Note: my reamping process is much simpler and has no latency because I use a bigger AI that is fully routable internally.

erm... and I hope I've not made too many mistakes writing out all this...
it's really easily done.. so if anyone spots something shout... I doubt all that crap up above is 100% perfect..
but it should be reasonably close...
 
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I feel like I have to say this in a lot of threads but rule out the aggregate device setup as your duet does not support it and apogee has no intentions of making it able to support it.
 
jdolll said:
I feel like I have to say this in a lot of threads but rule out the aggregate device setup as your duet does not support it and apogee has no intentions of making it able to support it.
Click to expand...

Wrong dude!! I got this to work like a charm on my iMac with my Duet(original one) and my Axe-Fx II, thanks to Clarky.

Setting up the aggregate was a snap, and with Clarks detailed info, I got the Logic side of things sorted out pretty easily.

I already knew how to record the dry track and re-amp the tone, but I couldn't figure out how to re-amp and hear the backing track at the same time.

Clarky mainly helped me understand the importance of the order of the devices when setting up the aggregate, and then how to assign the ins and outs in Logic. (by the way Clarky, my Duet is 2 in 2 out, not 4 in 2 out, but I made the adjustment just fine)

Re-amping and hearing the main track playing is awesome!! Makes dialing tones and sitting in the mix so much easier!!



Thanks for taking the time Clarky, you are awesome dude!!
 
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jdolll said:
I feel like I have to say this in a lot of threads but rule out the aggregate device setup as your duet does not support it and apogee has no intentions of making it able to support it.
Click to expand...

You’re not quite right in your thinking here…
The Duet is an audio interface, and like all audio interfaces it has no idea if it is a member of an aggregate interface or not. And that is why you’ll never see support for this on any AI.
The aggregate interface is created in the Mac itself.
The Mac ‘knows’ what audio interfaces it has available [including all the internal ones, USB and firewire connected ones too].
When you create an aggregate interface you are simply telling your Mac “I want to use these ones together”.
Your Mac groups them up as an aggregate interface, and the AI’s themselves are blissfully unaware [they’ll simply crack on doing all the things they did before]..

The killer part when creating an Agg AI is:
- make the AI that sends your mix to the monitors 1st in the list
- knowing how to count and therefore select the inputs and outputs in Logic so that you are sending / receiving audio to / from the right places
 
Wiki request:
We need a list of "working" aggregate device setups with detail on the settings since this keeps coming up. It's not as simple as creating an aggregate. There are other settings that matter (e.g. OSX's interface is buggy when it comes to the sync (drift) settings and I think this adds the confusion). Each interface can also have it's own configuration app and then add in the daw and you've got lots of confusion. If this is added to the wiki care should be taken when describing "works". "Works" to me means hour after hour without any issues. Works for other people has proven to be a few minutes b/c they don't realize that it starts to fail after extended use.

Duet:
I was under the impression that the duet did not work properly... I'm lazy and haven't searched back in the posts.

Me:
I use an FF400 on OSX and the aggregate usually fails within 2 minutes no matter the settings.
 
grape said:
I use an FF400 on OSX and the aggregate usually fails within 2 minutes no matter the settings.
Click to expand...

out of curiosity, what was your config when the FF400 didn't work when included within an Agg AI?

How was the Agg AI created? as in, what units were included in it and in what order?
What is your computer type / spec?
What DAW was you using at the time?
How was it all hooked together?

I can't say I'll have all the answers [I only really know my own kit well], but I may be able to offer a suggestion or two..
also, the FF400 looks like it's man enough to cope with the AxeII, reamping, playing back the mix to the monitors etc all on it's own
so why do you feel the need for an Agg AI?? as in, is there a specific need that you are trying to address..??

Agg AI's are great but they have limits..
for example, I can't create a working Agg AI with my two AI's because individually, one of them is quite big
if I Agg that with my other the two units combined place too much of a strain on the firewire...
my solution [pretty soon] will be to add an additional firewire PCI-E to my Mac to spread the load..
I'll place the big fella on the PCI-E firewire circuit and the lil' fella on the Mac's build it circuit...
and then a lil' fingers crossed with respect to this solution...
if it works [glitch free] my Mac will have a 20 in x 6 out Agg AI - and I'll be happy as a shig in pit...
 
clarky said:
out of curiosity, what was your config when the FF400 didn't work when included within an Agg AI?
Click to expand...

I don't want to hijack this thread with my own setup since it's about the duet. I've written about my config in previous threads. If the duet works correctly without losing sync then the configuration should be submitted to the wiki so that others can reference it. I just chimed in b/c many devices work initially in the aggregate but fail to maintain sync or drift/correct enough to be audible and useless.
 
grape said:
I don't want to hijack this thread with my own setup since it's about the duet. I've written about my config in previous threads. If the duet works correctly without losing sync then the configuration should be submitted to the wiki so that others can reference it. I just chimed in b/c many devices work initially in the aggregate but fail to maintain sync or drift/correct enough to be audible and useless.
Click to expand...

dude... don't worry me if we do it here, in an older thread or in a new one..
if you got grief I'm up for having a go at fixing it if you are...
can't promise I'll get any further with it than you've got yourself, but the will is there to have a go...
 
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