Horrible. Absolutely mortifying playing experience last night.

[pauly]

Hi Bruce,
What a bummer - it’s gigs like that, make us appreciate the good ones!
No excusing the guy for being an asshole (which he obviously was by the way it was put to you!), but often these smaller places have PA systems that just cannot handle the bottom end that many modelers put out, particularly at that level (ie a broke venue usually hires inexperienced musos as they are cheap, and inexperienced musos don’t understand that their modelers can quickly pop a couple of pa speakers if not adjusted correctly). So… reading into it (could be right, could be wrong), perhaps this guy has had modelers blow a few speakers on the past, and has had arguments with people who didn’t understand why etc. of course if that’s the case, a low cut that would protect the crappy system would also possibly make the guitars sound awfully thin.
if that’s the case, in his position, I’d just have an active speaker waiting for musicians who show up with a modeler, but also, I could be completely wrong and maybe he’s just a prick.
At least we know one place you won’t have to play at again ;-)

Thanks
Pauly

Just came here to vent a bit. As a precursor just know I’m not “too good” to play anywhere. I’ll play a phone booth so long as my bands minimum is met. I really don’t care and have no ego to speak of when it comes to this shit. I’ve said many times I’m the worlds ok’est guitar player and am just fine with my little spot at the trough.

So……..I had a GREAT gig with the country band I play with in the lobby of the Hard Rock, Atlantic City NJ yesterday afternoon. 1-4 pm played 3 sets, super professional setup no nonsense kinda deal. Everything went and sounded great and a good time was had by all. We even had line dancers going. I love that shit.

Soooo…from AC NJ I had a 3hr drive to CT. to pick up my son and bring him home. He comes once a month for a weekend. Was up there for 8pm had him home for 9. During this time, I started to develop a slight headache.

Stay with me I’m getting to the point.

Sooo….about a month ago my band was asked if we can play a few tunes at a remembrance thing a loosely connected friend who has booked my band in the past was throwing for his recently passed girlfriend. She was a sweetheart. My wife and our bands male singer agreed. I couldn’t do it due to how hectic my day already was.

My wife has some kind of bug and backed out, understandably. In an effort to save face, I stepped in with my bands other singer for 2 songs.

I pull up to the Hilltop Tavern in Lodi, NJ (I think, or rochelle park but it doesn’t matter I’m never going there again). The scene was pretty chaotic. The place was absolutely packed, but packed is maybe 30 people because it’s the size of a postage stamp. I’ve been to and played places like this before, so I set up my board (fractal AX8 and an H9) and proceeded to make my couple connections to the PA. The bartender yelled from behind the bar “don’t put that fucking shit in my PA”!

At that point, I kinda had it. Told my singer I’m packing up and going home. People tour the fucking world with an AX8 but I can’t play some dump in Bergen county. Ok.

I ended up taking a lead out of the board and going into the clean channel of a guitar amp. The house band asked and bent over backwards for me and were all cool guys.

I’ll play a shithole. I’ll play for a little less than what I think I’m worth. I’ll play with bad sound. I’ll make it work. Rudeness? After I was ASKED to be there? That is a bridge too far. I can think of nowhere else worse to be than a shithole like the hilltop tavern on a Friday night. County lockup maybe? The emergency room? I’d even take the ER if it was like a non mobility issue cut that will heal well and takes 10-15 stitches. Give me that instead.

Anyway, this is probably a long read and felt like venting. I swore off social media so…. Y’all are basically it.

 

[Bruce Sokolovic]

+1

1) Civility is how we get along
2) IF…there was a concern or ”a priori”, they would have been justified in inspecting just what was being used

But still, this is no excuse for aggressive, bullish behavior.
…and I have a particular distaste for bullies…

He was Free to inspect. It’s freggin line level XLR not a nuclear warhead. Was just trying to get thru the 2 songs on top of my splitting headache and go home in peace.

 

[Bruce Sokolovic]

Hi Bruce,
What a bummer - it’s gigs like that, make us appreciate the good ones!
No excusing the guy for being an asshole (which he obviously was by the way it was put to you!), but often these smaller places have PA systems that just cannot handle the bottom end that many modelers put out, particularly at that level (ie a broke venue usually hires inexperienced musos as they are cheap, and inexperienced musos don’t understand that their modelers can quickly pop a couple of pa speakers if not adjusted correctly). So… reading into it (could be right, could be wrong), perhaps this guy has had modelers blow a few speakers on the past, and has had arguments with people who didn’t understand why etc. of course if that’s the case, a low cut that would protect the crappy system would also possibly make the guitars sound awfully thin.
if that’s the case, in his position, I’d just have an active speaker waiting for musicians who show up with a modeler, but also, I could be completely wrong and maybe he’s just a prick.
At least we know one place you won’t have to play at again ;-)

Thanks
Pauly

I literally had an active pa speaker in my car. Had he have said something it would have taken nothing to grab it. I’m super easy to work with and can get the job done 16 different ways.

 

[pauly]

Amazing how one jerk can destroy everything including valid ways of solving an issue. 16 should be enough! Lets hope he stays there and you never have to think of him again!

Thanks
Pauly

I literally had an active pa speaker in my car. Had he have said something it would have taken nothing to grab it. I’m super easy to work with and can get the job done 16 different ways.

 

[Rick]

Bar owners, on the average, are a strange group. They know musicians make them money or they wouldn’t have them there, yet most treat us as adversaries from the time you step foot on the property. I am always verbally appreciative when that isn’t the case, and a good club owner/manager is a wonderful thing, like an oasis to a gigging player.

Sorry you ran into an average one. They suck. Kudos for working through it. I heard CCR singing “stuck in Lodi again…”

 

[aens]

At that point, I kinda had it. Told my singer I’m packing up and going home. People tour the fucking world with an AX8 but I can’t play some dump in Bergen county. Ok.

I ended up taking a lead out of the board and going into the clean channel of a guitar amp. The house band asked and bent over backwards for me and were all cool guys.

You should've just left and let the sound guy pay the bar owner for the profit losses from a show cancelation. Don't let unprofessional assholes like this run over you. Next time tell people like this that you're either playing through your gear or you're going home. But I imagine it being really hard in a situation like this.

Bar owners, on the average, are a strange group. They know musicians make them money or they wouldn’t have them there, yet most treat us as adversaries from the time you step foot on the property. I am always verbally appreciative when that isn’t the case, and a good club owner/manager is a wonderful thing, like an oasis to a gigging player.

Sorry you ran into an average one. They suck. Kudos for working through it. I heard CCR singing “stuck in Lodi again…”

I feel like I have to comment on this. I book a venue and work with bars that have live music and music venues on a daily basis.

I'd say it's more or less like this (and in every industry):


It's good to remember most of the bar owners are really broke after the covid. In our country the live music venues and bars were the first places to get shut down and the last to open on lockdowns. It really sucks for them, for me, musicians and everyone in the live music business. Our venue was closed for over 9 months last year. It was horrible.

 

[Harm]

Your experience made me remember an audition I once had. When I unpacked my axe fx 2 (at the time) they said that they were looking for a guitarist, not a drive in show..
Needless to say they were silent after the first song…

 

[ConstantM]

these "sound guy" expert morons will either bust your balls for your equipment or they will fck up and damage it then refuse to compensate you for it. scvm of the earth

 

[NeoSound]

Just came here to vent a bit. As a precursor just know I’m not “too good” to play anywhere. I’ll play a phone booth so long as my bands minimum is met. I really don’t care and have no ego to speak of when it comes to this shit. I’ve said many times I’m the worlds ok’est guitar player and am just fine with my little spot at the trough.

So……..I had a GREAT gig with the country band I play with in the lobby of the Hard Rock, Atlantic City NJ yesterday afternoon. 1-4 pm played 3 sets, super professional setup no nonsense kinda deal. Everything went and sounded great and a good time was had by all. We even had line dancers going. I love that shit.

Soooo…from AC NJ I had a 3hr drive to CT. to pick up my son and bring him home. He comes once a month for a weekend. Was up there for 8pm had him home for 9. During this time, I started to develop a slight headache.

Stay with me I’m getting to the point.

Sooo….about a month ago my band was asked if we can play a few tunes at a remembrance thing a loosely connected friend who has booked my band in the past was throwing for his recently passed girlfriend. She was a sweetheart. My wife and our bands male singer agreed. I couldn’t do it due to how hectic my day already was.

My wife has some kind of bug and backed out, understandably. In an effort to save face, I stepped in with my bands other singer for 2 songs.

I pull up to the Hilltop Tavern in Lodi, NJ (I think, or rochelle park but it doesn’t matter I’m never going there again). The scene was pretty chaotic. The place was absolutely packed, but packed is maybe 30 people because it’s the size of a postage stamp. I’ve been to and played places like this before, so I set up my board (fractal AX8 and an H9) and proceeded to make my couple connections to the PA. The bartender yelled from behind the bar “don’t put that fucking shit in my PA”!

At that point, I kinda had it. Told my singer I’m packing up and going home. People tour the fucking world with an AX8 but I can’t play some dump in Bergen county. Ok.

I ended up taking a lead out of the board and going into the clean channel of a guitar amp. The house band asked and bent over backwards for me and were all cool guys.

I’ll play a shithole. I’ll play for a little less than what I think I’m worth. I’ll play with bad sound. I’ll make it work. Rudeness? After I was ASKED to be there? That is a bridge too far. I can think of nowhere else worse to be than a shithole like the hilltop tavern on a Friday night. County lockup maybe? The emergency room? I’d even take the ER if it was like a non mobility issue cut that will heal well and takes 10-15 stitches. Give me that instead.

Anyway, this is probably a long read and felt like venting. I swore off social media so…. Y’all are basically it.

Sounds like besides the people, the pa could have been the most valuable thing there. Situations like this get me pissed too, but on the other hand you have to try and see things from their point of view... maybe the pa owner has had other bands come in and plug something up wrong and smoke his system. This happens and they don't know your level of experience/knowledge. But yeah, being treated like a child and yelled at sucks, he definitely should be more respectful before assuming stuff. Bad assumptions will someday be the end of society.

 

[Rick]

You should've just left and let the sound guy pay the bar owner for the profit losses from a show cancelation. Don't let unprofessional assholes like this run over you. Next time tell people like this that you're either playing through your gear or you're going home. But I imagine it being really hard in a situation like this.


I feel like I have to comment on this. I book a venue and work with bars that have live music on a daily basis.

I'd say it's more or less like this (and in every industry):
View attachment 106563

It's good to remember most of the bar owners are really broke after the covid. In our country the live music venues and bars were the first places to get shut down and the last to open on lockdowns. It really sucks for them, for me, musicians and everyone in the live music business. Our venue was closed for over 9 months last year. It was horrible.

Most of my 40-something years of live gigging happened before C19 was a thing. I have also dealt with lots of really unprofessional bands over the years and could understand how bar owners are initially wary, but always thought they would react to a band that shows up early with good gear and a practiced presentation the same way we do with great clubs who have a stage large enough for the band they hired, with enough properly wired outlets to power a pro setup. Just wasn’t the norm. I’m not now, nor was I then, grumpy about it… it was just an oddity particular to bar owners. Any other venue was more like your bell curve. Of course, a great audience soothes most wounds.

I get that businesses these days are struggling, and they’ve been through a lot. But we’re there to bring in business and help them succeed; we’re on their side. It‘s only hurting themselves to treat any business partner poorly. That goes for bands too… making the club owner and crowd happy should be high on your priority list and many bands just don’t get that.

 

[aens]

Most of my 40-something years of live gigging happened before C19 was a thing. I have also dealt with lots of really unprofessional bands over the years and could understand how bar owners are initially wary, but always thought they would react to a band that shows up early with good gear and a practiced presentation the same way we do with great clubs who have a stage large enough for the band they hired, with enough properly wired outlets to power a pro setup. Just wasn’t the norm. I’m not now, nor was I then, grumpy about it… it was just an oddity particular to bar owners. Any other venue was more like your bell curve. Of course, a great audience soothes most wounds.

I get that businesses these days are struggling, and they’ve been through a lot. But we’re there to bring in business and help them succeed; we’re on their side. It‘s only hurting themselves to treat any business partner poorly. That goes for bands too… making the club owner and crowd happy should be high on your priority list and many bands just don’t get that.

I get your point. It’s not all black and white. Respect, professionality and general kindness from both sides goes a long way.

It’s mostly lack of education and understandment about businesses, customer relations, live music industry etc. that make things difficult. And sometimes it’s just people and their personal problems.

I know at least as many tedious people from bands and their crews as from bar owners.

 

[Joe Bfstplk]

these "sound guy" expert morons will either bust your balls for your equipment or they will fck up and damage it then refuse to compensate you for it. scvm of the earth

Sound guy at the Wallace & Ladmo stage at the AZ State Fair in '94 was specifically instructed not to send phantom power to my H & K Red Box.

Guess what he did....

 

[Will Schut]

Some years ago I filled in for a friend who’s band was playing smaller venues. Encountered a soundguy who insisted the drummer tuned his skins “out of phase”. But to top it all of, he stumbled onto the stage midshow to unplug an outlet that for some reason he needed right away. And that shut up the bass rig. After the show he thought the bassplayer was an amateur because “everybody knows not to use outlets that are situated on the left side of the stage.”
Later that evening it came to blows between him and the band that played after my friend’s band because he told their singer to sing softer, or he would “kill the mike alltogether”.
Yep, these people do exist and statistically you have a chance of running into them from time to time. Makes for great anacdotes though….

 

[Bruce Sokolovic]

To the point of maybe the modeler was too powerful frequency wise for a crappy PA, they had a freggin Nord plugged in. Not many musical instruments are capable of producing the brown sound. A Nord can have you involuntarily crapping your drawers with one low C note. I have a better Soundguy rant from last night (this just keeps getting better and better).

So we don’t have our regular guy for my 80s tribute and hire a very capable yet expensive Soundguy for an average bar. My band follows a pretty dead business model of always using pro sound, even for a bar where a small PA set up and controlled from an iPad would be fine. So, I knew this guy has the personality of 30 year old grandmas wallpaper going in, I didn’t want to push it and just wanted to try and have a good gig, get my money and get out. Simple enough.

My wife who sings in the band sets up with a Voicelive III, which is all her vocal FX but even more important, harmonies. She puts her FX unit down, its not even on a freggin board and has no footprint to speak of. His words exactly “what are we going to go back and forth now”? It’s XLR in, XLR out. This is not hard. Why be this big a dick? I think he made 400-500 bucks on a fkkn bar gig, you think 2 cables is asking him like we bounced the check. Why take the gig if you don’t want to do it and are going to be this level of miserable? Not only that, but where is the “back and forth”? This was only the “forth” part.

If I buy a PA and start doing live sound, do I get to be this big of a dick, too? As a guitarist, I’m not sure I’d have many teeth left with this attitude.

 

[james_val]

This is something I fight a lot, unfortunately, and it is something that kept me thinking a lot whether to go for the FM series. Sound guys here (middle Europe) sometimes, and even on mid-sized events, do not even KNOW that you can actually show up with something like this and are afraid of getting the signal from you directly without having a mic placed in front of some speaker. So even when owning a unit like this with the XLR output perfectly usable for live playing without the need of having a power amp and a cab... I have to bring a power amp and a cabinet because I never know who I will meet and I wanna have my sound.

Combine this with complete ignorance about what the band wants to sound like, so they will just do some random setting like "drums up, singer up, those two guys around... nah, they don't need to be here".

Also, a few told me that from time to time when someone was playing with some of these floor units, they got slowly silenced on the output from the sound guy as he did not see any amp on the stage, so no reason for that instrument to be in the mix... I love playing live, but this is something that makes me really sick when encountered.

 

[Kelleys Heroes]

This is something I fight a lot, unfortunately, and it is something that kept me thinking a lot whether to go for the FM series. Sound guys here (middle Europe) sometimes, and even on mid-sized events, do not even KNOW that you can actually show up with something like this and are afraid of getting the signal from you directly without having a mic placed in front of some speaker. So even when owning a unit like this with the XLR output perfectly usable for live playing without the need of having a power amp and a cab... I have to bring a power amp and a cabinet because I never know who I will meet and I wanna have my sound.

Combine this with complete ignorance about what the band wants to sound like, so they will just do some random setting like "drums up, singer up, those two guys around... nah, they don't need to be here".

Also, a few told me that from time to time when someone was playing with some of these floor units, they got slowly silenced on the output from the sound guy as he did not see any amp on the stage, so no reason for that instrument to be in the mix... I love playing live, but this is something that makes me really sick when encountered.

I always have some monitor with me, so it can be used for stage amplification as a plan B for my FM3. Even though I send a stage plot and input list, "plan B" turns out to be "plan A" in many venues. It may be my show, but it is their gig...

 

[ConstantM]

Sound guy at the Wallace & Ladmo stage at the AZ State Fair in '94 was specifically instructed not to send phantom power to my H & K Red Box.

Guess what he did....

someone i know had the same thing happened to him. ended up frying his atomic amplifire 12. and with the state that company is in he can't even get it fixed...

 

[Joe Bfstplk]

someone i know had the same thing happened to him. ended up frying his atomic amplifire 12. and with the state that company is in he can't even get it fixed...

Yeah, the bare minimum idiot-proofing would prevent these problems. It's not as if the existence of phantom 48V power is a big secret. Assume that some ID10T is goint to switch it on and build your stuff to tolerate it....

 

[warlockII]

I always warn the people running the sound system multiple times that I'm giving them a line level signal NOT mic level through the XLR's. 1/3 of the time, I hit my first note and it's obvious that they didn't listen or understand what I was saying.
I was going to audition with a band until they found out that I was using an Axefx III..."we're just a plug into a few pedals into our amps kinda guys and we don't think you'll fit in". Stupid is as stupid does.

 

[Bruce Sokolovic]

I always warn the people running the sound system multiple times that I'm giving them a line level signal NOT mic level through the XLR's. 1/3 of the time, I hit my first note and it's obvious that they didn't listen or understand what I was saying.
I was going to audition with a band until they found out that I was using an Axefx III..."we're just a plug into a few pedals into our amps kinda guys and we don't think you'll fit in". Stupid is as stupid does.

Jerkoffs. I’m surrounded by tube amps but somehow I “won’t fit in” because I want to use my modeler? I bet they still send faxes and wait in line at the check cashing place. Do me the favor and count me out.