Home speakers vs PA speakers

R

Rippin

Member
Hi guys, I'm new to this AX8 unit. Appreciate any ideas or help.

I am able to get an amazing sound on my home Yamaha HS 50M speakers. I also have a subwoofer I can turn off and on to make sure I don't have too much low end.

But, when I take the unit to a monitor or PA system the fidelity just isn't the same.

My main problem is with a clean sound and my Telecaster. Sounds harsh / not warm in the PA and monitors. And I heard some comment from the house engineer that said it didn't sound clear.

I am having to modify the EQ for each set of speakers. I understand some of that has to be done but wondering if there Amps or Cabinets that are more consistent from home system to PA system. Or, any other settings that might help?

I've attached my Telecaster preset from a snapshot.
I use scene 3 for the clean but, I also copied it into scene 1.
I also attached a picture of my Global EQ (one friend recommended me to boost the 1, 2, 4,and 8k)

Again, appreciate any help :)
Jeff
 

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Someone smarter will probably weigh in but I think this is the inevitable result of an extremely high fidelity guitar processor that outputs through speakers with variable characteristics. I found the type of difference between cab and PA was greatest with a Verve FBT, a little less with a Matrix FR12, and least with Adams studio monitors. The flatter the monitor, the better the starting point but it still requires adjustment to the PA.
 
If you want studio quality sound from a live speaker, you might want to consider the RCF NX-12 SMA. It will cost you, but it's worth every penny.

For a little less money (around $1200) you can get the RCF NX-10 SMA.... it sounds virtually the same, but the output is a little lower and the low end rolls off sooner.
 
larryseyer said:
If you want studio quality sound from a live speaker, you might want to consider the RCF NX-12 SMA. It will cost you, but it's worth every penny.

For a little less money (around $1200) you can get the RCF NX-10 SMA.... it sounds virtually the same, but the output is a little lower and the low end rolls off sooner.
Click to expand...
This looks like a great way to get a good stage sound but, I use in-ears and my AX8 settings sound great in my in-ear monitors, my issue is getting a good sound in the main PA.
 
Tahoebrian5 said:
You might want to have a PA speaker to help create patches that will be closer to your live use case. It's possible that you need to hear your patch at higher volumes also
Click to expand...
THIS. I create all my patches then "master" them like I would a track. I play the patch through my reference monitor, the PA, and headphones, and make sure I have something consistent through all mediums. If it sounds good across the different speakers, it will port well live. After I did that a few times, I have "known good" reference presets, and I can bounce back on a new preset and check it real quick without porting to different speakers...
 
Tahoebrian5 said:
You might want to have a PA speaker to help create patches that will be closer to your live use case. It's possible that you need to hear your patch at higher volumes also
Click to expand...
Thanks !!!! I need to work more with a PA and louder settings.....
 
Feflicker said:
THIS. I create all my patches then "master" them like I would a track. I play the patch through my reference monitor, the PA, and headphones, and make sure I have something consistent through all mediums. If it sounds good across the different speakers, it will port well live. After I did that a few times, I have "known good" reference presets, and I can bounce back on a new preset and check it real quick without porting to different speakers...
Click to expand...
Thanks for this advice :)
 
Never underestimate the power of gig volume to change the way your rig sounds, harshing your highs, booming your lows, and getting you lost in the cymbals, the kick and the bass. Dial your tones in loud, and in the mix.
 
If you are struggling to get through the mix, the easiest thing is to boost mids.

Once you are getting results, you can learn to finesse your mids so that you can use some scooped tones (the key is where the scoop is and how deep).

But at first just a plain old mid boost should get you going. I prefer the 5 band passive mode of the GEQ block after the amp and cab.

I lower the master Q a little bit and then make a frowny face.

upload_2016-12-9_11-5-32.png
 
Akstrat said:
I also have the RCF NX-12 SMA. It is incredible! I own a couple of QSC K12's and it smokes them!
Click to expand...

Agreed. They were the SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT thing I did to improve my guitar tone (not counting the AXE-FX)

People discount how important speakers are for getting great tone.

On smaller gigs, I actually use my RCF NX-12 SMAs (I have two) for my PA and I use my RCF NX-10 SMA for my guitar 'monitor'.

It really doesn't get much better than this, IMHO.

L
 
larryseyer said:
Sounds to me like you need a better PA.
Click to expand...
Yea, I wish it was just the PA but....My rock guitar patches seem to translate well, it's just my Telecaster country patches that I'm having trouble with. Again, great in my in-ears but I listened to it on a few PA monitors and it's really harsh (not warm) sounding. I end up in a lot of different club PAs. Each house system is a bit different so...guess I just have to get more live experience with the AX8.

Maybe there is a magical telecaster / country amp, cab, drive combination that solves it. Anybody ? :)
 
I use Teles in my band, those are all I use. We are not a country band, but we do play a few traditional country type songs depending on the venue. Nothing special I do for patches on country songs - Fender Twin with 2x12 Jensens (stock AX8 stuff). I use a TS808 with low drive to put some grit on it, compression up front, and large spring reverb. Pretty simple stuff. You might also try the Vibrolux amp. I really like the cleans on that one.

WRT PA system. Our PA is (2) QSC K12 tops and a KW181 sub, using an X-32 mixer. I keep a K12 top at home on a stand and practice through this (and dial in my tone through it). Our sound live through this system is fantastic and we get compliments at every show on sound quality. I would give most of the credit to our amazing sound guy though. I know a lot of people dismiss the K12s over more expensive gear, but my 2 cents is that a sound person will have a lot more influence over good sound than the specific gear chosen (within reason of course). And our sound guy is awesome!
 
db2112 said:
I use Teles in my band, those are all I use. We are not a country band, but we do play a few traditional country type songs depending on the venue. Nothing special I do for patches on country songs - Fender Twin with 2x12 Jensens (stock AX8 stuff). I use a TS808 with low drive to put some grit on it, compression up front, and large spring reverb. Pretty simple stuff. You might also try the Vibrolux amp. I really like the cleans on that one.

WRT PA system. Our PA is (2) QSC K12 tops and a KW181 sub, using an X-32 mixer. I keep a K12 top at home on a stand and practice through this (and dial in my tone through it). Our sound live through this system is fantastic and we get compliments at every show on sound quality. I would give most of the credit to our amazing sound guy though. I know a lot of people dismiss the K12s over more expensive gear, but my 2 cents is that a sound person will have a lot more influence over good sound than the specific gear chosen (within reason of course). And our sound guy is awesome!
Click to expand...

Appreciate the info. I agree with you also, the sound engineer if far more important that the system :) I'll be setting up a PA of some sort in my office. Thanks again!!! :)
 
larryseyer said:
If you want studio quality sound from a live speaker, you might want to consider the RCF NX-12 SMA. It will cost you, but it's worth every penny.

For a little less money (around $1200) you can get the RCF NX-10 SMA.... it sounds virtually the same, but the output is a little lower and the low end rolls off sooner.
Click to expand...
Call Mike Pyle, he'll give you a great deal, best around.
Mike Pyle
Audiopyle Sound
707-315-6204
mike@audiopyle.com
 
I'm having a similar issue. The difference is my clean tones cut through nice and sound good in my ears if just a little bright although I'm sure I can correct for that. However my dirty tones get lost in the mix in my in ears and sound muddy in FOH. I've read as much as I can about the issue and the whole Fletcher-Munson Curve thing and have been trying to cut bass and treble and boost mids. I've also tried a lot of methods (LUFS meters and the internal VU meter) to get even levels from my different patches but lots of presets can go from way too loud when I am playing solo (say, for an intro or something) to totally lost in the mix once the drums, bass, and second guitar start in.
I just don't have the option of being able to set up my patches at gig volumes let alone in the context of the overall band's mix. I use a USB audio interface and my in ears to make presets. I'm wondering if it's possible to reconcile the differences between in ear signals and what goes through FOH or are we stuck choosing between a good sound in the ears and a good sound for FOH.
We run our ears through an X32. Are there any tips or tricks for eq-ing our ears that might help solve this issue? I'd appreciate hearing any ideas you all might have.
 
Canjarj3 said:
...lots of presets can go from way too loud when I am playing solo (say, for an intro or something) to totally lost in the mix once the drums, bass, and second guitar start in.
Click to expand...
When you're playing a solo, your tone is boosted, and the band is laying back to get out of your way. When the band kicks in, your tone is competing with the cymbals on the high end, and with the bass and kick on the low end. Those instruments dominate the band at those frequencies. SO trim your lows and hight, leaving the midrange meat to fill that sonic space..
 
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