Hitting The Wall

T

TomBisbano

Member
So over the last year or so I have been using the AX8 and even though I get some really great tones for sitting around the house I am at a loss for getting good tones for instrumental rock/hard rock music. The thing that kills me is that I know this unit is more than capable of getting pro quality tones but I have come to the conclusion that I am not capable of doing it myself. I have downloaded other users presets and still just not finding what I am looking for. I have been tempted lately to jump onto the Kemper bandwagon after playing through one at a friend's studio. This same friend suggested that I look into Choptones preset packs since the sounds on his Kemper that I was digging are from one of those packs. I visited the site and they do make preset packs for the AX8 so the question is... has anyone on here tried the Choptones stuff? I would love to hear any opinions both good and bad about their product.
 
Give some examples of tones you want. What guitars do you use? What speakers are you using? What amp models have you tried?
 
chris said:
Give some examples of tones you want. What guitars do you use? What speakers are you using? What amp models have you tried?
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The lead tone that I am looking for is distorted but not fizzy, warm but not muddy/boomy. Grew up listening to Paul Gilbert and that tone has a tightness to it that I like. At the same time I love the tone that Satriani gets. I guess the sound in my head falls somewhere between the two of them but not looking to copy any one player's sound. I have gone through every amp/cab combination that I can think of without much luck. I purchased the Austin Buddy pack about 6 months ago but it didn't get me where I wanted to go. That's one of the things that got me thinking about the Choptones presets or the Kemper. I just don't think that I am going about things correctly and honestly getting tired of searching and just want to write and record.
 
I should also mention that gear wise I am using a variety of guitars with the same results. My current guitar is a custom build that has Dimarizio Air Classic pickups in it. For monitors I am using a set of Focal Alpha 50's. Before that I used the M-Audio BX6 Carbon speakers. I don't gig out anymore so the reason for this purchase has always been for the home studio.
 
in my experience, if you went through every amp and cab combination, then there is an issue before or after the axe. so changing to another modeler probably wouldn't solve it. i haven't tried ChopTones, but worth a shot if you like what you hear from their demos.

you might like the JVM models, since that's what both Satch and PG are using. can you upload a preset that perhaps was close to what you want, and we can see how it sounds for us and give pointers?

satch and PG have IMMACULATE technique too, and that honestly goes a long way. a friend of mine played John Petrucci's actual rig with JP's gig guitar (and him standing there!) and it honestly sounded "nothing" like JP's tone and playing, he told me. then JP picked up the guitar and it sounded like him again. same exact settings and gear. so there's always that too.
 
Frankly if the ax8 doesn’t do it the Kemper isn’t either. It’s not the gear.

It’s kind of like when a golfer goes out and buys one top of the line brand of clubs, finds they aren’t shooting like a PGA pro, then goes and buys another brand of clubs thinking that is going to change things. Been there done that, and I have a garage full of drivers and putters to show for it while still shooting in the 100’s.

I can assure you that you’d love the tones of your favorite artist if they used the exact same gear you were using. Heck, you’d likely love the tones even if they used lesser gear.

Look into the technique and not the gear. Gear gas often is just an excuse not to practice when it really comes down to it.
 
+10 on what @lqdsnddist said. Over the years I have had MANY guitar students. Highly accomplished players (read practice all the time) make pretty much any gear sound good. Lesser accomplished players can play through the rig of the gods and somehow, it just does not sound as good. Please don't misunderstand me friend. My comments are not intended as a put down. Disappointment with your sound is a pretty common wailment among musicians, and especially with guitar players. My suggestion is to really dig into practice to get your sound to improve. I do notice that as my guitar students progress, they are more satisfied with their sound. Look at the great roster of guitarists that use FAS. How do they sound?
 
I think if I magically got possession of David Gilmour’s rig I’d flip half of it because when I play it doesn’t sound like Gilmour
 
I feel your pain when it comes to trying other people's patches. I haven't tried Choptones, but I've tried patches from others and several players on this forum who make demos that sound killer. But, when I load their stuff in, including several patches I've paid for, into my AX8 - meh. Ultimately, i really just spent a ton of time on the forum, watched tons of videos and used other people's patches as learning tools to see what tricks they are using and then implemented that stuff into my patches. Learning from guys like @2112, @bishop5150 , @Marco Fanton, @Glenn DeLaune, @Moke, @Geezerjohn and others has really given me a solid knowledge base to help actually define what I want from tone. Plus, the many other contributors to this forum provide tons of useful tips. Guys like @chris and many others really do know the unit and i usually take heed to their posts. After 2 years with my AX8, I'm really pleased with my tone and get compliments consistently from the sound engineers at shows. But I bet if you tried my patches in your rig -- meh.

@chris is basically a live manual. I'd definitely post a patch/preset and take him up on his offer to take a gander and offer suggestions. Ultimately, it has been my experience that trying to solve the tone issue with purchased stuff is, at best, a good start. You will always have to tweak to your guitar, PA, monitors, etc. so using the knowledge available here can get you there. Take full advantage of the guys here and don't give up.
 
@Moke is a great resource also. Honestly I would contact him. He has a website, Moke’s Custom Presets, there is contact info on there and he is very responsive. He will even tutor you online via Skype. The guy is a wizard. Plus, actually talking live with someone is a big plus for me. It’s like he is sitting there in the room with you and helping you out. I would try that before buying more presets. I think he could help you figure out what you are after and how to get there. One other suggestion, and it may sound like a no brainer to others but it was a revelation to me. I have played 9 gauge strings forever and almost always tuned to standard pitch or maybe a half step down. But I read where the first time Metallica worked with Bob Rock he talked them into tuning down a whole step and they were amazed. So I bought myself a hybrid Elixer set of strings, 11 to 52’s and toned down a whole step. WOW! That was it! The tone I had been after for years! It had the right amount of “oomph” and guts to it. Sounds simple I know, but it worked for me.
 
TomBisbano said:
I should also mention that gear wise I am using a variety of guitars with the same results. My current guitar is a custom build that has Dimarizio Air Classic pickups in it. For monitors I am using a set of Focal Alpha 50's. Before that I used the M-Audio BX6 Carbon speakers. I don't gig out anymore so the reason for this purchase has always been for the home studio.
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How were you monitoring yourself through the Kemper?

It's been posted on this forum before by others and I think there's something to it, but there are days that I have 'bad tone' days. Same preset sounds bland one day and then awesome a day later, sometimes an hour later. Sometimes my fix is to sift through the factory presets, which eventually start inspiring me then coming back to mine. I get back to a spot in mind where I like the preset that I created. But a lot of times I'm just uninspired to even go through that exercise.
 
A good starting point if you are trying someone else's preset that sounds good is to understand the path layout and how each block (GEO, Boost, Cab, etc.) is tweaked. From there you can start to make adjustments to fit your tone. Sometimes it might only be the Pre or Post EQ that makes all the difference. Of course cab choice should be a major starting point.

Lots of great folks here to learn from and get accurate advice. Download some presets from the AxeChange.
 
Sort of a misunderstanding taking place with this thread. My issue is not getting a great sound for sitting around the house. I am trying to get a great recorded sound. My thought process was that going with the Choptones stuff would maybe be a good way to go about things since I am seriously struggling to get my lead tone to sit well within a mix and while I have owned a decent amount of gear through the years I am not an "amp guy" and have very little idea of what some of these amps are capable of doing when dialed in correctly. The question from my original post is: " I visited the site and they do make preset packs for the AX8 so the question is... has anyone on here tried the Choptones stuff? I would love to hear any opinions both good and bad about their product".
 
TomBisbano said:
I am not an "amp guy" and have very little idea of what some of these amps are capable of doing when dialed in correctly
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Understanding how your technique, instrument, amp, speaker, mic, mic placement, preamp and post processing work together to create a polished recorded tone is as big a journey as just learning how to play the instrument in the first place, and at the end of the day only experience can make you record and mix better.

Choptones do some great stuff (I actually converted their AF2 presets to AX8 format so they could sell them), as does just about every other preset vendor, but I don't think purchasing more presets is going to achieve the end goal you're chasing. There's a wealth of resources on Youtube regarding mixing guitars and I'd encourage you to go down that rabbit hole and see where it takes you.
 
TomBisbano said:
Sort of a misunderstanding taking place with this thread. I am trying to get a great recorded sound... I am seriously struggling to get my lead tone to sit well within a mix
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No misunderstandings really. There isn’t a stock “great recording sound.” The only one who knows what your mix sounds like is you. No one can create a tone that sits in your mix without hearing your mix with your guitar and playing.

It’s a bit like asking someone to create a soup that would taste good to you without knowing what you want it to taste like.
 
I've found that recording is a whole new ball game - and a huge challenge with home studio technology nothing short of breathtakingly deep and complicated.

In the end I did what I did with guitar playing - stopped and paused for a moment - and rather than throwing more money at gear I looked into education. A bit of money spent on guitar lessons and a 2 day recording course has paid me back numerous times over.
 
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