High Notes Evaporating

R

RA88

Member
I've had the Ultra for almost two years now. Most amazing object I've encountered in life, possibly the most frustrating as well. While I've gotten some amazing tones out of it, I've felt for some time that something is wrong, like maybe I changed a setting, lost track, or maybe I just don't know how to tweak to fix the issue(s). (I've read the manual and this forum - a lot). My most pressing issue: On higher gain presets (most of which I've modified from original or built) if I fret high on the high E, the note rings out for a short time (a couple seconds) and then sounds like it's fallen into a cave where overtones are devouring it before it quickly evaporates. Lower notes sustain very well. If I play fast alternate picked triplets up high it just doesn't seem to have the articulation it should. I usually play a Strat with DiMarzio high output pickups, but just got an Ibanez Prestige with GFS low output humbuckers and with that guitar the issue is considerably worse. That's what brought me here.

I play almost exclusively onto the computer with Pro Tools, listening through headphones (I know that's not the best way). Aside from the issue above, it seems to me that I should be getting a wider zone where I can play clear legato lines and do tapping without getting so much string sensitivity that it's unmanageable. I know it's a fine line there, but just wondering if these issues are related.

Any thoughts on what I could try to solve these challenges?
 
Aside form the obvious using compression and making sure you have a minimum of gating, playing around with different sims and input settings is your best bet. Another thing that will help is to keep your hands clean before you play and to change strings regularly. I get lazy some times after I come home from work and grab the guitar without having washed my hands. I try to change out strings roughly every 10-15 hours.
 
Aside from making sure input gate is not killing the note.Hard saying,been using ultra 2 yrs so your not new to it. It happened to me before ,but it was my action was to low on guitar, pickup to high?
 
I've noticed something similar, I've been using the Ultra for some 4+ years. Seems like the high notes, and especially some high pinch harmonics, are "squashed". i.e., the pinched harmonics in EJ's Cliffs Of Dover, in the intro section - which should be a climactic burst of sound at the end of the phrase - sound rather wimpy.
 
I notice this on the II as well, and it seems to be somewhat random as I will see it on one patch and not another (but both patches are almost Identical).
I don't see it often but I did immediately notice it on the USA Mark Lead series amp simswhen I first got my II
 
RA88 said:
My most pressing issue: On higher gain presets (most of which I've modified from original or built) if I fret high on the high E, the note rings out for a short time (a couple seconds) and then sounds like it's fallen into a cave where overtones are devouring it before it quickly evaporates. Lower notes sustain very well. If I play fast alternate picked triplets up high it just doesn't seem to have the articulation it should.
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Three likely culprits come to mind:
  • Action too low;
  • Not enough neck relief;
  • Frets no longer level.
These are guitar issues, not Axe-FX issues. The Axe-FX only knows what waveform it's getting from your guitar. It has no idea what fret you're playing at, so problems that only show up at certain frets are not Axe-FX problems.

Check your guitar to make sure your action and relief are set right, and that your frets are still level. As guitars age, they often develop a dip just beyond the neck joint. That effectively raises the height of the upper frets, and can cause exactly the kind of problem you're having.
 
Thanks. There may be something to this, but I have this going on with four guitars, one of which I just got back from being set up by a professional tech. Meanwhile, after posting this, I found something that may be obvious, but wasn't to me: My input level on the Mix page of the Layout page was 0. After trying moving it up on the Layout page, (where it sets levels for the four rows). I was able to turn my Input 1 dial (physical dial on the face of the Axe Fx) down and get tickling red (which I wasn't getting very well before even with a high output single coil), and my Output 1 down as well, which seems to have given me much better ringing high notes without the problem I described (at least with one of my guitars) and more ability to do higher gain sounds with control.

I think there may be other ways to make this input issue work, but I'm a little lost on that. I've read about setting input level on the I/O area, but the only way I see to do that is on the Control page, where I have "Input Volume" and "Output Volume" set to "None."
 
Hi
you could try a null filter in front of the amp and raise the level might help maybe, what you said about overtones is interesting too, i get this too, recently ive been using a drive with all the mids pulled out and high and low cut off and it seems to get rid of overtones. then add them back in till the prob crops up again then take it back a bit, this works for me using drives as my main dist into a real amp. my mids on the drives are practically off but it still cuts thru this may work using the amp models too. I dont usually believe guitars are the problem its always the patch i find...
hope this helps!
 
RA88 said:
Thanks. There may be something to this, but I have this going on with four guitars, one of which I just got back from being set up by a professional tech.
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That's odd. Do you get the same high-note deadness when you're playing unplugged? If you do, then the guitars are the problem. Depending on the condition of the neck, it may be impossible to correctly set up a guitar. I'm not doubting you, but it's worth a check.

RA88 said:
I've read about setting input level on the I/O area, but the only way I see to do that is on the Control page, where I have "Input Volume" and "Output Volume" set to "None."
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You're looking at the controller assignment page. Go to the I/O menu. The very first page is where you set your input levels.
 
Rex said:
That's odd. Do you get the same high-note deadness when you're playing unplugged? If you do, then the guitars are the problem. Depending on the condition of the neck, it may be impossible to correctly set up a guitar. I'm not doubting you, but it's worth a check.


You're looking at the controller assignment page. Go to the I/O menu. The very first page is where you set your input levels.
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Thank you, Rex. I appreciate your help. I'm not getting this though, and wondering what I could possibly be missing here (were talking original Ultra, not II). When I go the I/O menu it starts on the "Mode" page which gives opportunity to choose input source as: "Analog Front" (me), or "Analog Rear" or "Digital." I'm not seeing how to set input level from there.
 
Duh. My bad. What you're looking for is the physical input knobs on the front panel, not something in a menu. I was suffering from a little 180° thinking. :)

It's also worth checking whether you have the same problem unplugged as you do when you're plugged in.
 
I was scratching my head for a while there, and Rod Serling was standing in the corner, smoking a cigarette.

One of those four guitars I don't have now, but I think I do have a little fret buzz on the Ibanez, and it's really noisy from the trem springs (just semi-fixed that with a rubber band)... that may have been playing a part. My Strat though seems to be ringing out clearly now that I've upped the input and lowered the output. I also have a Hamer Studio that's had some neck issues from humidity and sounds a little marginal when not plugged in, so I think you may be on target with some of this. I'm about to have some work done on each and am going to have each set up so I'm sure this isn't a problem. Thanks, Rex.
 
RA88 said:
My input level on the Mix page of the Layout page was 0. After trying moving it up on the Layout page, (where it sets levels for the four rows). I was able to turn my Input 1 dial (physical dial on the face of the Axe Fx) down and get tickling red (which I wasn't getting very well before even with a high output single coil)
Click to expand...

Are you referring to tickling the red input LED (above Input 1 level knob), or lighting the Out 1 Clip LED? The layout mixer page doesn't affect input level; only output level. If the input LEDs hit red more easily there must have been another issue (bad/dirty pot/cable/connection/switch) that randomly improved around that time.

Playing through only headphones might be a large part of the sustain issue.
 
Bakerman said:
Are you referring to tickling the red input LED (above Input 1 level knob), or lighting the Out 1 Clip LED? The layout mixer page doesn't affect input level; only output level. If the input LEDs hit red more easily there must have been another issue (bad/dirty pot/cable/connection/switch) that randomly improved around that time.

Playing through only headphones might be a large part of the sustain issue.
Click to expand...

Thanks, Bakerman. Of course, you're right. I had that backward. The layout mixer page levels are certainly outputs for the block rows, so when I turned that up, I was able to turn my Output 1 dial down on the face of the unit. I'd like to understand the mechanism behind this though, since doing that did give me a significantly better tone, got my highs to sing out (resolving, for the most part, the issue I started this thread with) and gave me more control over what I'm playing - seems like a better balance between gain / string sensitivity. I haven't quite figured out yet if that's a universal solution, or it worked for me based on (maybe moderating) other parameters / settings I'd established.
 
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