Here's 59 Bogner IR's for you all! Using 6 mics - FIXED!!

Re: Here's 59 Bogner IR's for you all! Using 6 mics.

Jay Mitchell said:
I repeat: you have not yet captured a valid speaker IR. I don't have time to teach a course in spectral analysis here, so you'll have to do some research on your own. I have gained enough insight over the past 28 years of doing this type of work professionally to be able to recognize the difference between an impulse response and noise. As before, I can still state with 100% confidence that, whatever it is, your "IR" is not the impulse response of a speaker + mic. You need to take another pass at this.
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Aaaaargh, my picture of Frequency Mag. Response looks right, but the other two picture / graph tabs on the AxeFx IR Convertor look very wrong compared to other IR's that I know are valid. No idea why.

I decided to try and make my own impulses because I heard a couple people say that it's simple and easy. I seriouly beg to differ at this point. I'm a Software Engineer by day and I'm no stranger to computers. So I do have a leg up on average people trying to make IR's. This is obviously either a very hard thing to do, or there isn't proper instructions out there.

If anyone has made actual valid IR's with Voxengo Deconvolver, please chime in. As I said, I know that the actual recording of the sweeps was done properly, so most likely it's a mistake in the manner in which I'm using Deconvolver afterward (I bought the full version last night and used it on the most recent zip).
 
Re: Here's 59 Bogner IR's for you all! Using 6 mics.

I've used Voxengo Deconvolver.
I'm not sure what you're doing wrong...
I took the 10 sec. sweep file (48kHz 24bit mono) I created with its Test Tone Generator, selected that plus 1 second at the end in ProTools and recorded the signal that came back through the miked cab, that results in a 1642848 bytes file (48kHz 24bit mono).
I then selected that wave file in Voxengo DC (options: 24bit, MP Transform, Normalize to -0.3dbFS) and processed it.
The resulting file is 144080 bytes.
Select that in the IR Converter and save it to a new file.
Worked here.
 
Re: Here's 59 Bogner IR's for you all! Using 6 mics.

merlin17 said:
I've used Voxengo Deconvolver.
I'm not sure what you're doing wrong...
I took the 10 sec. sweep file (48kHz 24bit mono) I created with its Test Tone Generator, selected that plus 1 second at the end in ProTools and recorded the signal that came back through the miked cab, that results in a 1642848 bytes file (48kHz 24bit mono).
I then selected that wave file in Voxengo DC (options: 24bit, MP Transform, Normalize to -0.3dbFS) and processed it.
The resulting file is 144080 bytes.
Select that in the IR Converter and save it to a new file.
Worked here.
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I didn't select MP Transform or the Normalize option. Ahhhh, yes if I select MP Transform, things are looking correct on all the graph pictures. Thanks!
 
Re: Here's 59 Bogner IR's for you all! Using 6 mics.

Well just WOW. Some of these sound really really good after that MP Transform tip. I've heard my IR's get better in 3 stages lol. Now they actually sound good enough to use. I posted the final great results in the OP. It had to be broken into 2 files. I also deleted the other bad invalid zips.

Thank you Jay for pushing me to do it right and letting me know about other indicators.
 
You got it!

I like these the most:
Bogner 1x12 CL80\E609 AtConeEdge.syx
Bogner 1x12 CL80\MD421_OnCone 0.5inLeft.syx
Bogner 1x12 CL80\MK-319 onGrilleConeCenter.syx

:D
 
AndrewSimon said:
You got it!

I like these the most:
Bogner 1x12 CL80\E609 AtConeEdge.syx
Bogner 1x12 CL80\MD421_OnCone 0.5inLeft.syx
Bogner 1x12 CL80\MK-319 onGrilleConeCenter.syx

:D
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Awesome, Glad to hear it! I think it's pretty cool how I've got 8 or so positions of each mic, so I can adjust the EQ slightly so to speak, i.e. "That mic needs to go a 1/2 inch further from the cone". I mixed IR's of a Cascade Fathead 2" away on cone with a Baby Bottle at 1'. Sounds killer! Low end growl with condensor sizzle and bite.
 
Hmm, I'm not so sure about the "MP Transform" thing. I've never used Voxengo's product but I'm guessing "MP" stands for "minimum phase." In that case, it's totally destroying the phase response. Minimum Phase is some mathematical definition which basically means that the magnitude and phase responses must be related in some very specific way. In other words, you'd be left with an impulse response that has the exact same magnitude response, but a totally different phase response.

jerotas, if you're a software engineer, do you feel like downloading GNU Octave, which is a free MATLAB replacement? I wrote some useful deconvolution scripts for it so it can automatically generate sine sweeps, and given a recorded sweep, produce the deconvolved impulse response. If you want to try it out I'll post it; I think I posted it in that JBL impulse thread a while ago.
 
schnarf said:
Hmm, I'm not so sure about the "MP Transform" thing. I've never used Voxengo's product but I'm guessing "MP" stands for "minimum phase." In that case, it's totally destroying the phase response. Minimum Phase is some mathematical definition which basically means that the magnitude and phase responses must be related in some very specific way. In other words, you'd be left with an impulse response that has the exact same magnitude response, but a totally different phase response.

jerotas, if you're a software engineer, do you feel like downloading GNU Octave, which is a free MATLAB replacement? I wrote some useful deconvolution scripts for it so it can automatically generate sine sweeps, and given a recorded sweep, produce the deconvolved impulse response. If you want to try it out I'll post it; I think I posted it in that JBL impulse thread a while ago.
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I'm happy enough with Voxengo for the moment, and I bought it. I will keep that in mind if that changes.
 
jerotas said:
schnarf said:
Hmm, I'm not so sure about the "MP Transform" thing. I've never used Voxengo's product but I'm guessing "MP" stands for "minimum phase." In that case, it's totally destroying the phase response. Minimum Phase is some mathematical definition which basically means that the magnitude and phase responses must be related in some very specific way. In other words, you'd be left with an impulse response that has the exact same magnitude response, but a totally different phase response.

jerotas, if you're a software engineer, do you feel like downloading GNU Octave, which is a free MATLAB replacement? I wrote some useful deconvolution scripts for it so it can automatically generate sine sweeps, and given a recorded sweep, produce the deconvolved impulse response. If you want to try it out I'll post it; I think I posted it in that JBL impulse thread a while ago.
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I'm happy enough with Voxengo for the moment, and I bought it. I will keep that in mind if that changes.
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Okay. Just saying, I'm skeptical about that MP option -- if it is minimum phase, you do have an impulse response, but it's not an impulse response of that speaker.
 
MP is Minimum Phase. This is from the help docs:

MP Transform enables minimum-phase transform that takes place after deconvolution. Sometimes when you capture a non-linear equipment like speakers and amplifiers enabling MP transform will create much more realistic impulses, without pre-echo. This option can be also used with reverbs. In the end, you will get a perfectly timed reverb with zero initial delay and without pre-echo. However, this is not suitable if the left and right channels of the reverb impulse have different initial spike timings.

Of course, the help docs are always speaking of impulses as if all impulses are reverb, confusing the issue more.

Now, that said...I have some VERY good sounds combining two of my impulses made with it. So much so that I don't care if it sounds exactly like my speaker or not (not sure if it does or not). Any other way I used Voxengo produced invalid impulses that sounded very bad by comparison.

For example, e609 + MD421 both on cone sounds killer.

I'm going to borrow my friend's Mesa cab and make some more impulses with it soon. I may use the other program you mentioned for that.
 
AlbertA said:
I would avoid minimum phase.
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If I could I would. Without using it all IR's created by me have been "invalid". I tried everything I could thing of. It does sound good with minimum phase though, so I don't really care at this point.
 
jerotas said:
AlbertA said:
I would avoid minimum phase.
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If I could I would. Without using it all IR's created by me have been "invalid". I tried everything I could thing of. It does sound good with minimum phase though, so I don't really care at this point.
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Cool. Would you mind posting the raw sweeps you obtained? I'd be interested in deconvolving them myself if I have some time.
 
schnarf said:
jerotas said:
AlbertA said:
I would avoid minimum phase.
Click to expand...

If I could I would. Without using it all IR's created by me have been "invalid". I tried everything I could thing of. It does sound good with minimum phase though, so I don't really care at this point.
Click to expand...
Cool. Would you mind posting the raw sweeps you obtained? I'd be interested in deconvolving them myself if I have some time.
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You'll need the source sweep as well right?
 
jerotas said:
schnarf said:
Cool. Would you mind posting the raw sweeps you obtained? I'd be interested in deconvolving them myself if I have some time.
Click to expand...

You'll need the source sweep as well right?
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Hey I wouldn't mind having those either. I can PM you my e-mail address.
 
AlbertA said:
jerotas said:
schnarf said:
Cool. Would you mind posting the raw sweeps you obtained? I'd be interested in deconvolving them myself if I have some time.
Click to expand...

You'll need the source sweep as well right?
Click to expand...

Hey I wouldn't mind having those either. I can PM you my e-mail address.
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I think this stuff is too big to email. I'll post it here.
 
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