Help with Phaser block, can't get a good MXR Phase 100 type sound

L

lqdsnddist

Axe-Master
Has anyone had any success is getting a nice deep phaser effect from the Axe-Fx II ?

Something like the deep and resonant, kinda "hollow" sound of a MXR Phase 100, Maestro Phaser, Boss PH2 Super Phaser, even to a moderate degree a EHX Small Stone ? Think sort of a dub/reggae vibe, Clash's "Rudy Can't Fail" for example


I've tried every setting I can think of, maxed out depth, 10 and 12 poles, various feedback settings etc and just can't get any of the models really anywhere close, its just always a swirly sound.

Maybe using a filter or wah pedal would be a better way to go ?

I've been really impressed being able to dial in about any effect I can think of, even various Big Muff versions and such, but I keep a/b'ing with my various pedal phasers and am not getting anywhere close, with the exception of the vibe setting, which after some tweaking was able to get pretty close to my Roger Mayer Voodoo Vibe.

Given how good the rest of the effects are, and how an OTA style phaser sound really isn't anything all that unique, I'm sure the unit should be able to do it but I must just be doing something wrong

Thanks
 
These settings sound similar to my Phase 90 pedal:

Phaser block in series, before Amp block.

Type: Script 90

Everything default except:
Rate: 0.240
Feedback: 12.9
Freq: 134.9
Tone 1.75

Mix: 50%, Level 2.0.
 
Rudy Can't Fail is not a typical MXR phaser sound. You need something like the BiPhase for that. Here are the settings:

Digital Mono
Rate 0.503
Depth 6.26
Feedback 67.5
Freq. 199
Order 12
LFO Type Triangle
Freq Span 394

Mix 50%
 
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"Rudy Can't Fail" was just a normal MXR Phase 100, nothing fancy in the slightest. My 74 Script logo nails the tone and I believe that is the specific version Mick Jones used. Even the new versions can get that sound, here is Andy from PGS playing it in this gear demo video MXR M-107 Phase 100 - YouTube

Really any OTA style phaser with 8+ stages will do, my $40 Boss PH2 for example. Thing is though, that while I have 3 or 4 pedals that do it well, I've pretty much sold off my whole pedal board since getting the Axe II. With a bit of tweaking I was able to dial in my triangle and ram's head muffs, the smoothness and fat bottom of my W&C Box of War, easily match all my favorite silicon and germanium fuzz faces etc. Really amazing how tweakable the Axe is and in 15-20 minutes of a/b tweaking I could match the pedal well enough I put it up for sale. Sold my flangers, my delay pedals (though I still haven't quite gotten the Echorec down, close enough I don't need a $200 pedal anymore) Basically its all gone or in the process of being sold, about 45 pedals total and all because I feel I can do everything in the box, save for the darn phaser, which is driving me crazy.

Spend about an hour, totally nailed my Boss Ce-1, Ce-2, Arion SCH-1, Dimension D, etc. Every sound is in there, just have to figure out how to bring it out I keep thinking, but the phase block just seems to be a real disappointment, save for the vibe. Which really is pretty ironic because you can pick up a $25 Ibanez tonelock phaser that sounds great, but try finding a nice lush univibe sound short of $300 for a Mojovibe, or Voodoo Vibe etc and its not going to happen.

I certainly could just run a pedal phaser in the loop, or in front I know, but that seems a bit silly to be otherwise totally in the box with my rig save for one effect that I only use for a couple of songs
 
Dialing the start freq all the way down to 50 Hz surprisingly has helped quite a bit in getting a bit closer to that characteristic "hollowness" which was surprising as increasing it seems to get really muddy and distorted quick.

About the best ballpark I've gotten after continued work this afternoon is as follows

order 6
rate - whatever suits the song
lfo type - sin
depth 10
feedback around 50-75%
tone 4
start 50 Hz
freq span 1.5
lfo phase 9 degree


Far from perfect but at least it sounds far more like a Phase 100 than any of the other settings
 
I meant to say: not a regular Phase 90 tone in Rudy Can't Fail. Because it's for sure not a 4-stage phaser like the Phase 90.

P.S. Wanna share the settings of your matched effects?
 
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Ah I see what you mean now. The Phase 100 is a 6 stage phaser FYI.

Give my ballpark settings a try if you ever get a chance, I'd like to see what an Axe expert such as yourself thinks and if you could perhaps get it a bit closer.

I think I'm happy enough to go ahead and sell my MXR. Maybe not my Bob Moog designed Maestro, which has the cool "balls" control knob, but after a long afternoons tweaking, I think the Axe II has come through again with being able to replace yet another pedal
 
Does anyone have settings for the Maestro PS1-a (all three settings)? That way, I can set up an XY and switch between at least two of them.
 
I've got a Maestro but haven't really tried to compare it yet since its not really a pedal I'd use live, more of one of those cool studio toys. Its such a thick and lush sounding phaser, might be hard to come that close to it, as few if any pedal phasers ever could. I can't really see the Axe being able to get as thick sounding, but I sometimes find the Maestro to actually be a bit too pronounced. If I'm not mistaken, it was designed more as a keyboard effect than for guitar.

Would be cool to see some more models in coming f/w in the Axe, such as a Mutron, Maestro, old boss/roland AP2, Phase 100 etc. I'm not knocking the Phase 90 and its variations, but I've always found it kind of boring and generic as far as phasers go. So many really cool and unique ones out there
 
lqdsnddist said:
Dialing the start freq all the way down to 50 Hz surprisingly has helped quite a bit in getting a bit closer to that characteristic "hollowness" which was surprising as increasing it seems to get really muddy and distorted quick.

About the best ballpark I've gotten after continued work this afternoon is as follows

order 6
rate - whatever suits the song
lfo type - sin
depth 10
feedback around 50-75%
tone 4
start 50 Hz
freq span 1.5
lfo phase 9 degree


Far from perfect but at least it sounds far more like a Phase 100 than any of the other settings
Click to expand...

Tried these and they sound great!
 
If memory serves, the Maestro added in a small amount of pink noise, which makes the sound of the sweep more obvious. Not sure if there's a way to do that on the Axe.
 
PaulS said:
If memory serves, the Maestro added in a small amount of pink noise, which makes the sound of the sweep more obvious. Not sure if there's a way to do that on the Axe.
Click to expand...

You could with a synth, but adding drive(distortion) before the phaser will do a similar thing
 
I think any noise is probably just a byproduct of the FET circuit of that era and probably not a design feature. Mine has always been pretty quiet honestly, with a bit of "tone suck" being what I notice most. Just like many non true-bypass circuits of the era, even when the effect was switched off, the audio signal was still running through some circuitry and suffers some loss in highs as well as a little boost in gain. Boss CE-1 chorus etc all do this, with some effects like an EchoPlex even having this viewed as a tone boost, and other effects commonly put into a bypass looper to preserve signal.

The Maestro is otherwise a pretty typical 6 pole phaser, with the exception of it has a speed up/down type of effect when you switch between the speeds. What I mean by that is that you don't go from slow to fast instantly, but it kind of ramps up the speed. I think this was an attempt to get something of a rotary speaker type effect such as how the rotor and horn on a Leslie cab spin up/down at different rates producing a cool effect. That would probably be the toughest aspect to try to mimic, other than just the really thick and warm tone.

As has been suggested, maybe adding just a touch of drive before the block, or even just turning up the level of the block, would produce the midrange boost of the pedal before an amp.

I'm new to the Axe though so I'm hardly the best person to ask, but I'll try hooking mine up this weekend and see if I can at least get ballpark settings after I spend a little more time with the Phase 100 I'm trying to duplicate. Sometimes I've noticed that the Axe just sounds so clean and quiet that its sometimes doesn't quite capture old analog effects just because it sounds a little too perfect, a little too hi-fi, even with the proper modulation depths and such. Trying to capture those less than perfect circuits and resulting high noise floors, sometimes odd impedance values etc is often where the difference is, but I'm sure there is a few settings that can be tweaked on the Axe to get closer, just have to find them
 
I'll try giving the Maestro a shot too. Instant 2112 Rush (plus Yes Album Steve Howe) or JPJ on the No Quarter.

I do look back with amazement at how musicians created such cool sounds with the tech at hand. I can only imagine what 70's rock would have sounded like if they had the tech of today (like the Axe) and modern computers and synths.
 
Whats interesting is how as a whole, tech was used in the 80's to advance things further, but now, tech is largely used to allow an efficient (in terms of cost and time) means to recreate sounds from the past. Something like a digital delay unit was viewed as this big step forward, overcoming what was often viewed as limitations of older analog technology. Then as it became more common place, musicians started to yearn for those analog devices of the past as an alternative from the mass produced digital gear of the late 90's early 2000's. Then as old IC chips started to become scarce, labor cost got higher and such, analog devices got to become sort of a luxury item, be they either old originals or modern recreations from the likes of Analogman, Skreddy et al. Then bringing us to the modern day, we are now back to using the most cutting edge tech, but often times to recreate original analog tech. Something like a Strymon El Capistan for example; pretty sophisticated digital delay pedal, probably among the most DSP horsepower and coding that goes into a given stomp box style pedal, but who's end goal is simply to recreate the sounds of a tape delay, which back in the mid 80's was seen as obsolete tech that most players wanted to ditch in favor of the fancy digital perfection of rack processors of the time.

Many of those same trends can be seen with things like synths too, selling old analog machines to pawn shops to purchase the latest digital sample playback machines, which in turn then created a huge demand for analog machines again (I remember selling a Roland tr909 drum machine for about $1500 in the early 2000's that I think I picked up for around $100 used a decade earlier) and out of this demand for analog machines the whole virtual analog or VA market, with high end DSP being used to model analog oscs and filters ala the Access Virus, Nord Lead etc.
 
lqdsnddist said:
I think any noise is probably just a byproduct of the FET circuit of that era and probably not a design feature. Mine has always been pretty quiet honestly, with a bit of "tone suck" being what I notice most. Just like many non true-bypass circuits of the era, even when the effect was switched off, the audio signal was still running through some circuitry and suffers some loss in highs as well as a little boost in gain. Boss CE-1 chorus etc all do this, with some effects like an EchoPlex even having this viewed as a tone boost, and other effects commonly put into a bypass looper to preserve signal.

The Maestro is otherwise a pretty typical 6 pole phaser, with the exception of it has a speed up/down type of effect when you switch between the speeds. What I mean by that is that you don't go from slow to fast instantly, but it kind of ramps up the speed. I think this was an attempt to get something of a rotary speaker type effect such as how the rotor and horn on a Leslie cab spin up/down at different rates producing a cool effect. That would probably be the toughest aspect to try to mimic, other than just the really thick and warm tone.

As has been suggested, maybe adding just a touch of drive before the block, or even just turning up the level of the block, would produce the midrange boost of the pedal before an amp.

I'm new to the Axe though so I'm hardly the best person to ask, but I'll try hooking mine up this weekend and see if I can at least get ballpark settings after I spend a little more time with the Phase 100 I'm trying to duplicate. Sometimes I've noticed that the Axe just sounds so clean and quiet that its sometimes doesn't quite capture old analog effects just because it sounds a little too perfect, a little too hi-fi, even with the proper modulation depths and such. Trying to capture those less than perfect circuits and resulting high noise floors, sometimes odd impedance values etc is often where the difference is, but I'm sure there is a few settings that can be tweaked on the Axe to get closer, just have to find them
Click to expand...

there is a drive parameter in many of the effects to dirty it up a bit.

That being said, the phaser has been the hardest thing for me to match to its analog counter parts.
 
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