Help with Farts and Splatter

M

marshall2553

Power User
:oops: Yeah, I know it sounds like a personal problem but... I'm having two issues with the vintage, non-master volume amp models that I'm hoping you guys can help with. Let me preface this by saying that I generally start with the tone controls at 12 o'clock and the master around 9.00 to 9.41, the drive fairly low, and everything else at the default values. Then I adjust drive and tone to taste.

The first problem is that I almost always wind up with mushy, farty low end. It almost reminds me of the sound of a Bassman or JTM45 driven really hard, but on every amp model. The other problem is that higher notes (on the E, B, and G strings) have a nasty, splattery, spitty sound in the initial attack. Both of these problems diminish as the master is backed down way below the suggested 9.41 to 5 or 6, but then I lose the power amp grind that these amps are known for.

This happens with several guitars, my pickups are all backed pretty far off the strings, I'm no where near clipping the input, and it happens with only an amp and cab model in the grid. Has anyone else experienced this or have any suggestions? Thanks!
 
marshall2553 said:
The first problem is that I almost always wind up with mushy, farty low end. It almost reminds me of the sound of a Bassman or JTM45 driven really hard, but on every amp model.
Click to expand...
Increase the "LO CUT" frequency on the amp block advanced parameters page. Don't be shy. Tweak by ear, and don't worry about the number you see in the display.

The other problem is that higher notes (on the E, B, and G strings) have a nasty, splattery, spitty sound in the initial attack.
Click to expand...
Decrease the "HI CUT" on the same page. Same advice as above. Alternatively, you can try increasing sag, decreasing damp, or using a cab sim that rolls off more high end.
 
Thanks Jay! I've been meaning to tweak those two to see if it helps, I just wanted to make sure I wasn't doing something wrong as far as drive and master settings. One problem I've always run into with modelers is that I have a mindset that I should be able to treat it like an amp and get what I want only using drive, tone, and volume. Its not that I'm afraid of tweaking (heck I'm a software developer, I live to tweak stuff), its just that I want it to work like a real amp. I guess I should just learn to embrace the extra power that modeling provides.
 
Jay Mitchell said:
marshall2553 said:
The first problem is that I almost always wind up with mushy, farty low end. It almost reminds me of the sound of a Bassman or JTM45 driven really hard, but on every amp model.
Click to expand...
Increase the "LO CUT" frequency on the amp block advanced parameters page. Don't be shy. Tweak by ear, and don't worry about the number you see in the display.
The other problem is that higher notes (on the E, B, and G strings) have a nasty, splattery, spitty sound in the initial attack.
Click to expand...
Decrease the "HI CUT" on the same page. Same advice as above. Alternatively, you can try increasing sag, decreasing damp, or using a cab sim that rolls off more high end.
Click to expand...
If this can be solved with blendig out disturbing frequencies, Radleys PEQ-Tip comes to mind. :p
Micha
 
marshall2553 said:
One problem I've always run into with modelers is that I have a mindset that I should be able to treat it like an amp and get what I want only using drive, tone, and volume.
Click to expand...

i have the same problem. ;)
if it sounds like a duck,walks like a duck and looks like a duck,then it's a duck.
if it sounds like a duck,has a green lcd,value knob,midi,a/d/a conversion,amp and cab sims.....then it is most definitely not a duck. :D
 
marshall2553 said:
I've been meaning to tweak those two to see if it helps, I just wanted to make sure I wasn't doing something wrong as far as drive and master settings.
Click to expand...
Well, there really is no right or wrong here. In amps with the tone stack location set to "pre" (i.e., Fender type amps), you can potentially clean up the low end by turning down bass. Because the factory IRs came from close-mic'ed speakers - with three exceptions - their response is really not what you'd hear from that speaker if you were playing through it. For that reason alone, some amount of tone-shaping is required, just as it is when recording a close-mic'ed amp. I have found that, with firmware rev. 9.0, the default parameters are much closer to what I want. I only use IRs that were taken in the farfield, however.

One problem I've always run into with modelers is that I have a mindset that I should be able to treat it like an amp and get what I want only using drive, tone, and volume.
Click to expand...
That's really just a starting point. If you see it as a goal, then you really need to identify some speaker IRs that will help you get there.
 
Jay Mitchell said:
I only use IRs that were taken in the farfield, however.
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do you have any tips to get farfield ir's to cut through the mix better, I find that I get them sounding ok alone but cutting through the mix it just gets washed. I'm probably doing something very wrong and didn't spend enough time with it, but just hoping you'd have a pointer or two
 
jhuggins said:
do you have any tips to get farfield ir's to cut through the mix better,
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Mine cut through just fine with no special tricks. It makes a difference which IRs you use, what you play through, and how you set your amp parameters. IMEthe issues are no different than the ones you encounter in tweaking a physical amp.
 
General rules of thumb to "tighten up" vintage amps:

Increase Damping
Decrease Sag
Decrease Thump
Decrease Transformer Match
Increase Lowcut Freq.
Increase Presence
Turn on Bright
 
FractalAudio said:
General rules of thumb to "tighten up" vintage amps:

Increase Damping
Decrease Sag
Decrease Thump
Decrease Transformer Match
Increase Lowcut Freq.
Increase Presence
Turn on Bright
Click to expand...

Thanks Cliff! I've been tinkering with it this evening and I'm pretty happy with the results I've gotten from increasing damping, dropping thump to zero, and backing off on the master a little.
 
FractalAudio said:
General rules of thumb to "tighten up" vintage amps:

Increase Damping
Decrease Sag
Decrease Thump
Decrease Transformer Match
Increase Lowcut Freq.
Increase Presence
Turn on Bright
Click to expand...

wiki'd
 
This is a great thread and very helpful; but the thread title is indeed one of the best I've ever read.

Every time I read the thread title, I want to post, "Then stay away from eating Taco Bell...." :lol:
 
Bringing life back to an old thread. I recently got back from a week long business trip and finally got the chance to fire up my rig last night. I was playing along with November Rain and then hit the distortion patch at around the 3:30 mark and I was like, "woah, this sounds horrible!" Somehow my ears got the chance to reset and I was hearing more clearly than before I left. The amp was the Bogner Shiva Lead model, and the problem was that it sounded very "plasticky", like a cheap SS open back amp, perhaps like it's about to fart out. My thought was that I had too much bass in my amp sim, so later tonight I might try toying around what Cliff suggested. What are some typical lowcut freqs for higher gain amps like the Shiva or JCM800?
 
qingcong said:
Bringing life back to an old thread. I recently got back from a week long business trip and finally got the chance to fire up my rig last night. I was playing along with November Rain and then hit the distortion patch at around the 3:30 mark and I was like, "woah, this sounds horrible!" Somehow my ears got the chance to reset and I was hearing more clearly than before I left. The amp was the Bogner Shiva Lead model, and the problem was that it sounded very "plasticky", like a cheap SS open back amp, perhaps like it's about to fart out. My thought was that I had too much bass in my amp sim, so later tonight I might try toying around what Cliff suggested. What are some typical lowcut freqs for higher gain amps like the Shiva or JCM800?
Click to expand...

I'd start between 80Hz and 150Hz. Just use your ears - depends on your gear, your style and how you set up your tones. The higher the number, it'll sound thinner solo'd out; but in any context with other musicians (recorded or live) it'll drop in a mix MUCH better.
 
I'd also double check your settings (cab sims on/off as required), since it's been a week since you fired it up, maybe you changed a setting right before you left on accident? Also, have you installed the FW 11? That really cleared up issues like this for many people. You could call it the pepto bismol of the Axe world.
 
Also, upgrade to firmware 11 if you haven't already done so.

Note that the Marsha has extremely tight bass and the low-cut defaults to something up in the 400's if I recall correctly (not in front of my Axe-FX right now). That might seem high but it proves you really just need to use your ears and not worry about the numbers.
 
Yep, updated to FW11. I do remember that some amps default to something well into the hundreds, but I was always like, "F that, I want low end" and I'd tune it down to 60 or so. I believe the problem is that it sounds cool on its own, but when I play along with music it doesn't sit well in the mix.
 
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