Help me decide to buy a AX8

Leeoo

Leeoo

New Member
Hi guys,
I want to get into AMP Modeling. I was never a big knob-turner so this will be a jump in cold water for me.
I've been researching for around a week and having problems deciding between the AX8 and the Helix.
On paper the helix seems to be more like what I want:
- VST-Support so that I can tweak my sound from home with my pedalboard in the band-room and record demos without constantly reamping
- Headphone output
- Build in Expression pedal
- It can be used as an Audiointerface
- Userfriendly UI
- It's 300€ cheaper

HOWEVER from what I've heard and read the Helix struggles when it get's to high gain and sounds a bit digital.
Since I play in a deathmetal band, high gain is what I will be using most of the time. :D
And in general most people seem to agree that Fractal has the better sound. It's just not as convenient and getting into the UI seems like more work. Especially for somebody that has been using bias fx presets for the last couple of years and never really got into shaping his own sound. On the other hand I want to change that and getting into Helix or the AX8 will both mean a lot of work, so this should not be a selection criteria anyway.

I should probably stop brabbling about my insecurities and get to my questions:
1. When was the last AX8-SoftwareUpdate? Is it still updated regularly or "declining" because of the focus on the Axe FX III? I know that there is a different team working on the AX8, so it should not bother it too much, right?

2. How many different outputs can you get? It should be 4 right? Output L & R and Fx Chain L & R.
Can I realize these simultaneous outputs with the Ax8?
1. Output to the PA with a Cab-Sim
2. Output to my PowerAmp+Cab without Cab-Sim for band-practice or selfmade monitoring on a gig ;)
3. Output to my Headphones with a Cab-Sim when practicing late at night
4. DI-Output for reamping when recording

That way I could create all my presets with these outputs and would be prepared for all my AX8 usecase-case combinations
- Recording Demos (Output 1 + 3)
- Reamping (Output 4)
- Practicing with Headphones (Output 3)
- Playing on a Gig/Bandroom using the PA (Output 1)
- Playing on a Gig/Bandroom using a real Cab (Output 2)
- All of them combined at the same time!! :D

I know that is probably a crazy setup...

Thanks for taking the time reading this :)

Have a great day,
Leo
 
Leeoo said:
1. When was the last AX8-SoftwareUpdate? Is it still updated regularly or "declining" because of the focus on the Axe FX III? I know that there is a different team working on the AX8, so it should not bother it too much, right?
Click to expand...

January 2018. Next update is currently in beta test.

Leeoo said:
2. How many different outputs can you get? It should be 4 right? Output L & R and Fx Chain L & R.
Click to expand...

Correct

Leeoo said:
Can I realize these simultaneous outputs with the Ax8?
1. Output to the PA with a Cab-Sim
2. Output to my PowerAmp+Cab without Cab-Sim for band-practice or selfmade monitoring on a gig ;)
3. Output to my Headphones with a Cab-Sim when practicing late at night
4. DI-Output for reamping when recording
Click to expand...

Yes

Leeoo said:
That way I could create all my presets with these outputs and would be prepared for all my AX8 usecase-case combinations
- Recording Demos (Output 1 + 3)
- Reamping (Output 4)
- Practicing with Headphones (Output 3)
- Playing on a Gig/Bandroom using the PA (Output 1)
- Playing on a Gig/Bandroom using a real Cab (Output 2)
- All of them combined at the same time!! :D
Click to expand...

There is no output 3 or 4. Only Out 1 (main out) and Out 2 (FX out).
 
ChristThePhone said:
There is no output 3 or 4. Only Out 1 (main out) and Out 2 (FX out).
Click to expand...

Hi, thanks for your quick answer.
I don't understand, you confirmed that the AX8 has 4 useable outputs a few lines above.. Do you mean that the naming is wrong?
I thought I can use
1. L Output
2. R Output
3. L FX Out
4. R FX Out

Since my guitar-tone will be mono anyway and I don't need stereo (i think).

So with 4 Outputs I mean:
L Output -> Amp + Effects + Cab-Sim
R Output -> Amp + Effects + Cab-Sim (for Headphones)
L Fx Out -> Amp + Effects ( no Cabsim )
R Fx Out -> just DI

They are all seprate Outputs, so I labeled them 1-4.
Is this possible or do I misunderstand how these Outputs work? Can I address each of the 4 Outputs seperatly?
 
Sending amp+FX+cab to main out and have it mixed down to mono is not an issue. The problem is the AX8 signal path is stereo. You can choose to use only one output to go mono, however, trying to use the stereo path as two independent mono lines is rather complicated. This means sending the Amp+FX through the left FX send and a DI signal through the right FX send could become a problem. I haven't yet tried this same exact setup myself but I have come across similar issues numerous times, most of the times this involves using two volume blocks. I'm currently not in front of my AX8 but can try it tonight.

The AX8 has two output volume dials. Out 1 changes the volume of the L+R main output, Out 2 controls the volume of the L+R FX send.

Anyway: live presets and studio presets are two separate things and maybe you better keep two separate sets. One for live use with cab sim via the main out and without cab sim via FX send. One for studio with main out including cab sim and DI via FX send. As the main out is available as XLR and TRS you could connect your headphone to the TRS outputs directly and go via XLR to your audio interface.
 
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That would be awesome! :)
If that doesn't work I would be still able to get "Out L" for the PA and "Out R" for headphones, right? Although I fear that my headphones will only send a signal to my right side and the left side will stay dead.. Not sure how Mono-Output->Stereo-Headphones works tbh ^^

The "Fx Out" would then either be 'DI' or 'AMP without the Cab' and I could choose between both by changing where I put the Fx-Loop in my Grid, correct?
Maybe I could even change between DI and AMP-Out using a Pedal? I'm not sure how limiting this thing is. I should probably just get one and try out by myself...
 
You can buy a cheap headphone amp/mixer and attach that to one of the AX8 outputs. It will then let you get the mono signal into both ears or mix it with something else.
 
Tried and and could get it to work using two volume blocks. The first volume block is panned hard left, the other one panned hard right.

upload_2018-7-13_17-46-43.png
 
Works with a single volume block too panning the amp block hard left and feeding the left side into the mono cab block and panning the volume block hard right :

upload_2018-7-13_18-0-40.png
 
I owned a helix for about 7 months and used it a lot. I think the user interface is simpler with the helix, but you do have much more control with the AX8. I think the amps and modeling sounds better on the AX8 plus you have many more amp choices on the AX8. Fancy scribble strips and color menus are nice on the Helix, but that display will be the first thing that breaks down after a few years of use. I think the Line 6 modeling has been good, but the EQ on the stock settings seems more like a caricature than a real portait. You can tell what it is supposed to be, but many of the trademark features are over exaggerated. You can tweak things and get them to be pretty spot on, but you are going to do a lot more work to get it there on the Helix. On the other hand, the 259 amps available on the AX8 is almost TOO much! I have only really had the time to test about 10 to 14 amps. I do like that there are pedal inserts on the Helix, I hope that is something they plan on integrating in any future products. Especially with the limitation of CPU it would be nice to have the ability to add an H9 or two.

As far as updates go, they use to come out a lot more frequently and have slowed down. Not because they are not focusing on this anymore, but that most of the bugs and issues have been fixed. Most of the updates now will be for new amps and cabs or firmware updates to make it run a little smoother. Some of the updates are because they are adding things from the AxeFX III and are incorporating it to the AX8. Most companies would just use this as a reason to upgrade to the latest and greatest.

If you are needing headphone amps and more ins and outs, you would be better off maybe getting an Axe FX II used with an MFC controller. With the release of the AxeFX III, you can be certain that an updated version of the AX8 is in the works. For the price point of $1100 new, I think the AX8 is a no brainer.

The AX8 was designed to be a compact, simplified, gig ready unit. Both units make a good device. This one happens to work better for my needs, but yours maybe totally different. Good luck with your decision!
 
rocknroling said:
With the release of the AxeFX III, you can be certain that an updated version of the AX8 is in the works.
Click to expand...

#Speculation.

@Leeoo - the AX8 will do the job, not a problem. The issue you will find is that with your target setup in mind, I doubt that a Left Mono to direct amping and a Right Mono Headphone selection will get you what you want to hear.

Are you limited in how you can sonically represent the FAS gear? Meaning, are you in a studio with extreme volume restrictions or something? My 5 year experience with FAS has been great, and the reason for that is a solid pair of studio monitors. Personally it's the only way to go as headphones do not provide the reflective dynamics accurately.

The crummy part (sometimes) for me with the AX8 is not having a built-in USB soundcard. My AFX-II Original does. I can sonically listen to Output 1 in my monitors, and then digitally record into my DAW. That might be a more comprehensive solution to your specific ask.

Food for thought.
 
Thank you all for your efforts, experiences and opinions :)

rocknroling said:
If you are needing headphone amps and more ins and outs, you would be better off maybe getting an Axe FX II used with an MFC controller. With the release of the AxeFX III, you can be certain that an updated version of the AX8 is in the works. For the price point of $1100 new, I think the AX8 is a no brainer.
Click to expand...

I need the AX8 for Live-Gigs primarily. Everything else is just quality of life :)

ChristThePhone said:
As the main out is available as XLR and TRS you could connect your headphone to the TRS outputs directly and go via XLR to your audio interface.
Click to expand...

So the Main-Out will always be send to both TRS and XLR? Or do I have to switch manually?
If output would go to TRS and XLR at the same time, this would make using a Headphone and Speakers really easy indeed ^^

ibanezfreak4 said:
Are you limited in how you can sonically represent the FAS gear? Meaning, are you in a studio with extreme volume restrictions or something? My 5 year experience with FAS has been great, and the reason for that is a solid pair of studio monitors. Personally it's the only way to go as headphones do not provide the reflective dynamics accurately.

The crummy part (sometimes) for me with the AX8 is not having a built-in USB soundcard. My AFX-II Original does. I can sonically listen to Output 1 in my monitors, and then digitally record into my DAW. That might be a more comprehensive solution to your specific ask.

Food for thought.
Click to expand...

Not having a built in USB Soundcard is the biggest let-down for me too..
With the Helix I could have a all-in-one solution. However, since recording is not my main-priority I don't worry about it too much.
Of course for a real recording session I would need good monitors and no headphones :D

I think I will go for it and buy one. Thanks guys <3
 
Leeoo said:
Thank you all for your efforts, experiences and opinions :)



I need the AX8 for Live-Gigs primarily. Everything else is just quality of life :)



So the Main-Out will always be send to both TRS and XLR? Or do I have to switch manually?
If output would go to TRS and XLR at the same time, this would make using a Headphone and Speakers really easy indeed ^^



Not having a built in USB Soundcard is the biggest let-down for me too..
With the Helix I could have a all-in-one solution. However, since recording is not my main-priority I don't worry about it too much.
Of course for a real recording session I would need good monitors and no headphones :D

I think I will go for it and buy one. Thanks guys <3
Click to expand...
Main OUT1 L and R XLR and TRS simultaneous. Hardwired both levels controlled by OUT1 knob on AX8.
OUT2/FX L and R TRS level controlled by FX OUT2 knob on AX8.
 
Well would you rather have a product from a company used by john petrucci, larry mitchel, metallica, ect, or buy from the company that makes the spider II?
 
I have both Helix and AX8. I've owned both twice. Obviously you're asking this question on the official Fractal site so this will be fairly biased, but other websites would be biased too.

There's a ton of overlap between the two devices. They'll both do a heck of a lot of the same things. Tons of vintage and modern amps, tons of effects, tons of switching options, etc. Both are very easy to program using computer apps. Both load impulses too. So it's useful to look at the differences.

Helix has a much better interface on the device itself. The screen is outstanding, capacitive footswitches are brilliant, and joystick is easy to use. The routing is more flexible too, so you could get 3-4 amps with gapless switching if you want, or stack half a dozen OD's, etc. Integration with Native is really clever if you record a ton. Headphone output is nice to have (although I've got jumper cables and used the AX8 just fine with headphones). USB interface can be useful too. And there's more momentum in updates over the last year and change.

On the flip side, I think the AX8 has a more dynamic and complex sound. Amps sound better with less tweaking. Effects have a richer tone, especially reverbs. You can get under the hood to make tweaks too if you feel the need. Stock cabs are very different in operation but generally to me sound a lot better with a lot less tweaking. Impulse management is far better (four times as many impulses and impulse auditioning). The device itself is more compact and more rugged. I prefer not having an integrated expression pedal. And there's quite a bit of amps and cabs the Helix doesn't have.

So for me it comes down to if you plan to use the device without a computer, or need multiple amps with instantaneous switching, or if you don't have an audio interface (go Helix). Or if you want ultimate sound quality, bulletproof design, and tons of options (go Fractal).
 
I was in your position a couple of years ago with the exception that I was familiar with modeling. I had used Line 6 products for years, both live and at home, and was ready to pull the trigger on the Helix. Since it was a lot of money for me, I thought I'd at least check out the AX8 to make sure I made the best possible decision. From the demos, the AX8 had the tonal edge over the Helix which was most important to me over UI, form factor etc.... The effects were the second most important and the AX8 had the edge there as well. I decided to take a chance on the AX8 (moving to the dark side from Line 6) and not once have I thought about the possibility of missing something by not choosing the Helix.

Whether you come from a modeling background or not, there is going to be a learning curve with any piece of Fractal gear but it's not as daunting as some would like you to believe. The manual, forum and Axe Fx Wiki make anything you need to know very accessible. It is a professional piece of gear with quality in every aspect obviously the priority over 'plug-n-play'. Not to say you won't be able to just plug in and go, the factory presets are the best of any modeler I've used to date. There's just no "quick start guide" or shortcuts when it comes to making it your own.

The allure of the Helix is it is truly an all-in-one solution with the UI, expression pedal and I/O possibilities. The AX8 may offer some 'inconveniences' but they are quickly and easily ignored once they become routine and you hear how good your tone is.
 
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