Heavy rhythm sounds: More amp gain or less amp gain and boost with a drive block?

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pitmonkey

Inspired
I'm revamping my rhythm tones for the show and can't decide whether I prefer to push the gain from the amp alone or lower the amp gain and boost with a TS or other drive block. The general aim is a fairly aggressive 80's/classic rock type drive and I'm mainly using the Friedman BE/HBE for the amp tones.

What do you guys prefer?
 
I'm an odd duck who doesn't like Tube Screamers for heavy sounds. If I need to take off some low end, the bass cut feature is way better to my ears and doesn't give that mid bump thing I don't like.

So to answer your question: always the amp.
 
For my rhythm stuff, I used to just go straight into the JMPre-1 with full on Input Gain. I recently switched to using a TS before the amp and dialiing it back. I don't think I prefer one over the other tonal-wise, but I feel like I can do pinch harmonics MUCH easier with TS in front.
 
I like to do my best too dial in the amp (5153 red) and then but a "bb pre" in front of it. Sounds great to me! Im using a mesa 20/20 or 290 thru 2 4x12s and 2 1x12 v30 cabs. Good luck brother!
 
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Whatever works best! I like the TS Od, Super OD or FAS Boost with amps like the Rectifiers or Mark series, but tend to prefer to use the HBE straight up. This clip uses the stock EQ settings with the presence raised to 6 and factory cab #149.

 
Thanks for the replies, guys!

It's not so much about adding more gain. You're right @B:ASSMASTER , the Friedmans have plenty! It's more about the differences in eq and feel that staging the gain differently produces. I think I was feeling like running the input gain high enough to get the sustain and response I'm after was making everything a bit too hairy. I do think I get too hung up on the Friedmans in general and I should probably explore some other amp models for a change!

@Paperjace I get exactly what you mean! Love those pinch harms!!

@2112 Thanks, I've actually been following your videos on YouTube. Nice sounds man!

I've tweaked a few things so we'll see how the gig sounds/feels tonight. The journey continues...
 
Found this thread randomly and thought I'd throw my hat in the ring, months late or otherwise...

The "boosted gain" amp style is very modern, IMO. As far as I know it wasn't used for metal tones before the 90s, in the way it's now used. It is used for throwing a mid-boosted, low-cut signal into a high gain amp to give a tight, focused sound. It's not at all to get "more gain", in fact it excels in allowing you to use less gain, but still get a great metal tone.

The HBE is gainy but dry, and works well without a boost. It doesn't need the "tightening" effect because it's already very tight by design. It doesn't need the mid-boost because it isn't used with enough gain to really need that, generally speaking. Things like Rectos, on the other hand, work great with the mid-boost (and then mid-cut on the amp) and the low cut, because they can be flubby.

The main tip I have for 80s tone is to use a mid-boost before the amp, but not necessarily an overall signal boost. Boost 800-1000Hz into the amp, and give it quite a bit of juice. Don't boost the signal otherwise - in fact I use a Filter block for this, or a Drive with "Null" clipping selected.

You'll know it immediately when you hear it - that pushed 1k into the amp is the most 80s thing there is........ perhaps after dripping wet chorus!
 
I like the TS in front because it enhances the response. I like the HBE's as well as the 6160 Block letter, and the Recto's. When I first played a Recto, I didn't know how to dial it in properly and hated it. I learned later how to get it and it's one of my favorite amps now and the Axe models it perfectly. I say this because, if you try the recto and find that you hate it, ask for some settings or an actual preset before you give up on it. I'll be glad to share mine with you. I use only HB pickups, usually BKP aftermaths or Juggernauts when dialing in my presets.

Good luck!!
 
I'd try one or a few of your recto presets. I haven't mastered dialing them in so I normally skip over them.
 
imograss said:
I'd try one or a few of your recto presets. I haven't mastered dialing them in so I normally skip over them.
Click to expand...

Sure, man! I'll get it uploaded when I get off work later.

Going from memory, the main thing is turning the bass knob wayyyy down, like to 1, 2, or 3. Using the TS in front. Lowering the SAG, to taste (This will make the response of the amp faster) and I think the - forgive me can't remember the name but, it's on the same page as the SAG setting, I think it's called Time Constant? - It can also be adjusted and works with the SAG setting if memory serves.

My notes are at home but, that is what I can recall. Maybe someone else can chime in and add to and correct me as needed.
 
In addition, if you are using the one that's modeled with "Modern" mode engaged, you'll want to keep your Master Volume around 9:00. The higher it is, the more low end is getting through. Also, you can reduce low end response and resonance in the CAB block.

I know, Recto's are a lot of adjusting but, it's kinda worth it in the end.
 
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Rectos have been pretty easy to dial in for me. A TS in front is a must. I usually keep BMT around noon. Only thing to worry about is the presence knob. So much fizz. I never take that knob above 9 o'clock.
 
Here's a Recto Modern patch I did. Its using a factory cab block. Adjust the input gain to your distortion satisfaction. Hope it helps!
 

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