Hearing bass guitar with in ears / headphones

fret

fret

Experienced
It's been puzzling me lately that I can't hear the bass guitar in live situations in my in ears or headphones. e.g. I'm playing guitar and hearing a mix of keys, bass, drums, vox and my guitar in my in ears.

The band I gig with use a Midas M32 with a bunch of P16M personal mixers on stage. And it seems that no matter what I do I can't hear the Bass guitar properly in the "mix". I've tried all different sorts of EQ solutions. And it's there when no one else is playing. But as soon as the drums and instruments start up it disappears. Or more correctly gets masked out by everything going on.

Which is weird, because I can easily get a great bass sound in my own songs when recording at home. Punchy, clear, sits in the mix perfectly. But live it's a whole different story. Well a) it's not me or my bass playing, but the bassist in our band and b) there is a lot of spill from acoustic drums. It sounds like there is a bunch of low end frequencies but no "note" to the bass. I can control his channel in terms of EQ, compression and what not, as I also do sound for the band rehearsals.

Is this normal for live in ear monitoring? Is anyone else having this issue?

Or is there something I can do to make it work?
 
You mean that if you turn up the bass guitar in your mix, you still can't hear it?
 
I'm not to familiar with the board, in-ears or the headphones you're using so take this comment with a large grain of salt. The specs are not really complete both on the headphones and the In-ears. I mean the In-ears say 20Hz-20kHz and the Headphones say 8Hz-20kHz but they don't spec a reference level which I know can be bogus but if it's 20Hz at-20dB then you have a huge roll off you are dealing with.

If both devices work with track music I would venture to say that something is killing the lows somewhere in the mix, maybe a lowcut is engauged somewhere in the matrix?
 
Rex said:
You mean that if you turn up the bass guitar in your mix, you still can't hear it?
Click to expand...

Yeah pretty much... no amount of volume seems to make it pop out. I can turn everything else way down and it's still quite unclear.
 
I have some Bowers and Wilkins C5s (Bowers & Wilkins C5 Headphones, C5 In-ear headphones, C5 earphones - Bowers & Wilkins | B&W). I thought the detail was incredible however that the low end was nonexistent. I spoke with a rep who said he felt the same until he started using Compy foam tips (Complyâ„¢ Foam Tips - Replacement Earphone Tips). Essentially you compress the foam tips, put the IEMs in, and let them decompress in your ear. They form a tight fit and voila!...bass!

I realize my C5s are made for recreational listening, however I think the results would probably be the same. I have a friend who has some Shure IEMs. He switched to the Comply foam tips and said it made a massive difference. They only cost like ~$20 for three pairs shipped. I'd say it's worth a shot.
 
For bass in IEMs, having a good fit is absolutely crucial - doubly so in live performance. Standard, off the shelf ones fall apart pretty easily, which is why I (a bass player) went with custom 1964 Ears IEMs.
You should play with other tips - material and size. You need a very good seal to start getting good bass. You also need a good mix - everything under 100Hz should be rolled off pretty heavily to start.
 
selta said:
You should play with other tips - material and size. You need a very good seal to start getting good bass.
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There are a bunch of alternative tip sizes that came with the in ears... I'll start with those I think. Thanks.
 
fret said:
There are a bunch of alternative tip sizes that came with the in ears... I'll start with those I think. Thanks.
Click to expand...
Mine came with three sizes. While some fit better than others, none of them create the seal that the Comply tips (see my post above) provide. It seems the key to apparent bass is that tight seal.
 
fret said:
Yeah pretty much... no amount of volume seems to make it pop out. I can turn everything else way down and it's still quite unclear.
Click to expand...
One of two things (or both) is going on:

1) There's the bass guitar is being mixed too bass-heavy, with not enough mids. The mids define the bass guitar's attack. The mids and upper bass (not the deep fundamentals) define the bass's note.

2) Your IEM's aren't sealing well in your ears. When the seal is broken, the low end is the first thing to go.
 
fret said:
There are a bunch of alternative tip sizes that came with the in ears... I'll start with those I think. Thanks.
Click to expand...

With the Shure generics, use the largest of the round "floppy" rubber ones as opposed to the "squishy" rubber. Makes a world of difference.
 
Yeah when I had my not customs, I used the harder rubber tips for my shures, and they really sealed. the foam and soft rubber tips are worthless imho. More drivers buds will help as well, I use triple drivers and I don't have any issue with low end. But it's mainly about the seal.
 
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