Health and the ravages of time

lscottk

lscottk

Experienced
In 2012 I ran into a big problem with my fretting hand. I had just joined a new band and we were practicing 2 -3 times per week to get our set list together in order to play a wedding gig for a friend who was getting married. During the intense practice time to learn new songs, I started developing a nasty pain in the palm of my fretting hand. I also experienced tingling and weakness in my fretting ring and pinky fingers. I pushed through the pain, even though it kept getting worse and worse, because I didn't want to disappoint my friend. We completed the gig, but immediately after I had to quit playing. I could barely practice 10 - 15 minutes before the pain became unbearable. So I stopped playing. For the next 4 - 5 years I tried everything - occupational therapy, nerve studies, MRI's, acupuncture, chiropractic, stretching. I saw multiple hand specialists. No one could figure out the problem. Eventually, my doctor suggested that I go see a hand specialist at the University of Washington Hospital. This doctor works with athletes, so the idea was that, due to his expertise, he may have additional suggestions on how to fix the problem. He looked over my previous MRIs and tests, and eventually suggested that a bone in my hand, called the Hamate bone, appeared to be slightly too long. The Hamate bone is adjacent to the Ulnar nerve, which is the nerve that connects to the ring and pinky fingers. He said that my Hamate bone appeared long enough that it might be irritating the ulnar nerver. He suggested that I have the Hmate bone surgically removed. He also said that he couldn't guarantee that this surgery would resolve the problem. He did place the liklihood of success at 70% - 80%. At this point I had tried everything that I could think of, so in April 2019, I had the surgery. After months of recovery, slowly regaining my strength and dexterity, I began to play pain free. I wasn't able to practice 5 - 6 hours a day as I used to, but I could practice for an hour and not be in agony. So I decided I was ready to join a band again.

About 2 months ago I met another guitarist and we began the search to find other musicians. We found 3 really good musicians and I'm really excited. This might be the best band that I've ever been in. I'm 62 and have been a musician since I was 12, so I've been in a number of bands over the years. Hot dog! I'm excited! Plus we had good chemistry and joked around. It was a good scene.

And, as I start working on our song catalog, I realize that while my hand is working, a degenerative disk in my neck is getting aggravated. It so happens that the aggrated nerve is my ulnar nerve, the same nerve that was getting irritated prior to my surgery. And I start to realize that I can't practice as much as I need to to prepare before our weekly practice. SHIT!

I believe in being honest and transparent, so I first brought up what was happening to the other guitarist. I also told the other band mates what was happening. I intended to slog through. And then I realize that I don't enjoy playing when it hurts so much. Plus the muscles in my forearm are tightening up, which inhibits my dexterity. Chords and repetition that I used to do effortlessly are now painful. My movement is inhibited. I can't do what I used to do. SHIT!

Yesterday, the other guitarist told me that I was "fired". He was a dick about it. It was not a surprise that I was asked to leave, because I wasn't pulling my weight. But I expected a little kindness from him, because I thought we were friends.

After sitting with all of the feelings that have come up I have come to accept that I can't be in a band if I can't practice and prepare. So, though the other guitarist behaved like a jerk, he was also right. We could have had the same outcome of my being asked to leave, but saved the friendship. But that's not what happened. So today, I'm angry and hurt. And I'm choosing to move on and remember the fun that we had as a band before the pain set in.

I'm posting here because of my grief and loss. Getting older means that the body accumulates wear and tear. With wear and tear comes more limitations. As a counselor told me once, sometimes things really are as bad as they look. Facing reality is hard. And, as Betty White once said,“Old age ain't no place for sissies.” When I was in my teens and 20s, my rock and roll self joked that I wouldn't make it past 30. Here I am at 62 with a wonderful wife and a terrific, talented son. I am grateful. And I pray that my health recovers to the point that I can do what I love so much - play the guitar.
 
So sorry to hear about you ailments, and the band. It could have been handled a lot more tactfully than that, but people always show there true colors eventually. Hope your health and pain get to the point where you can play again even if for the enjoyment of it.
 
I’ve done so many different things in music… From fun to professional.

But I’ve been shown time and again in my blessed life, that when one door closes, another opens.

Keep finding ways to exercise your passion. I’m in my 60s and really enjoy recording/production currently. I no longer have to do it for money so it’s at my own pace and level of enjoyment.

Pain is a thing… Unfortunately, I think most of us have to deal with it one way or another.

You’ll find a way; you didn’t come this far to end up leaving music. 👍❤️🙏
 
”When I’m 64” used to just be a fun song from one of my favorite bands, now it’s next March! I’m still gigging, something that started back in the mid-70s and persisted through marriage and raising kids, and a full-time career. If only in that, I could say I’ve been blessed. The last 10 years have included one back surgery, and another chronic issue in the same area that causes pain on extended standing (like 4 hour sets), but I’m working through it to see how much I can do. It’s frustrating because, otherwise, I’m strong and fit. I continue to work at strengthening the surrounding muscles to get as much and as far as I can.

Getting older definitely points out that we are not our younger selves, but also points out that we’ve enjoyed many years accumulating the wear and tear that limits us now. If/when the time comes that my gigging is over, and maybe the playing guitar with it, I’ll miss it intensely. But it’ll be the missing of a lost love I will have been thankful to have had. I hope that I’ll move on to enjoy what I can do at that point.

Getting older means living long enough to lose some of what we’ve been blessed to have been given. Losing some abilities, watching our icons pass on before us, and the hardest; losing loved ones. The latter makes other loss seem insignificant by comparison. I don’t want to minimize anyone’s loss, because it is significant to them even if I don't have the experience to empathize. When I lost my brother in an industrial accident, I felt God ask me “Will you now be grateful for the 46 years you had with him, or be angry you didn’t get 47?” This has changed my perception of loss.

Enjoy what you have while you have it, and what remains after a loss… including the memories and love of it.
 
lscottk said:
In 2012 I ran into a big problem with my fretting hand. I had just joined a new band and we were practicing 2 -3 times per week to get our set list together in order to play a wedding gig for a friend who was getting married. During the intense practice time to learn new songs, I started developing a nasty pain in the palm of my fretting hand. I also experienced tingling and weakness in my fretting ring and pinky fingers. I pushed through the pain, even though it kept getting worse and worse, because I didn't want to disappoint my friend. We completed the gig, but immediately after I had to quit playing. I could barely practice 10 - 15 minutes before the pain became unbearable. So I stopped playing. For the next 4 - 5 years I tried everything - occupational therapy, nerve studies, MRI's, acupuncture, chiropractic, stretching. I saw multiple hand specialists. No one could figure out the problem. Eventually, my doctor suggested that I go see a hand specialist at the University of Washington Hospital. This doctor works with athletes, so the idea was that, due to his expertise, he may have additional suggestions on how to fix the problem. He looked over my previous MRIs and tests, and eventually suggested that a bone in my hand, called the Hamate bone, appeared to be slightly too long. The Hamate bone is adjacent to the Ulnar nerve, which is the nerve that connects to the ring and pinky fingers. He said that my Hamate bone appeared long enough that it might be irritating the ulnar nerver. He suggested that I have the Hmate bone surgically removed. He also said that he couldn't guarantee that this surgery would resolve the problem. He did place the liklihood of success at 70% - 80%. At this point I had tried everything that I could think of, so in April 2019, I had the surgery. After months of recovery, slowly regaining my strength and dexterity, I began to play pain free. I wasn't able to practice 5 - 6 hours a day as I used to, but I could practice for an hour and not be in agony. So I decided I was ready to join a band again.

About 2 months ago I met another guitarist and we began the search to find other musicians. We found 3 really good musicians and I'm really excited. This might be the best band that I've ever been in. I'm 62 and have been a musician since I was 12, so I've been in a number of bands over the years. Hot dog! I'm excited! Plus we had good chemistry and joked around. It was a good scene.

And, as I start working on our song catalog, I realize that while my hand is working, a degenerative disk in my neck is getting aggravated. It so happens that the aggrated nerve is my ulnar nerve, the same nerve that was getting irritated prior to my surgery. And I start to realize that I can't practice as much as I need to to prepare before our weekly practice. SHIT!

I believe in being honest and transparent, so I first brought up what was happening to the other guitarist. I also told the other band mates what was happening. I intended to slog through. And then I realize that I don't enjoy playing when it hurts so much. Plus the muscles in my forearm are tightening up, which inhibits my dexterity. Chords and repetition that I used to do effortlessly are now painful. My movement is inhibited. I can't do what I used to do. SHIT!

Yesterday, the other guitarist told me that I was "fired". He was a dick about it. It was not a surprise that I was asked to leave, because I wasn't pulling my weight. But I expected a little kindness from him, because I thought we were friends.

After sitting with all of the feelings that have come up I have come to accept that I can't be in a band if I can't practice and prepare. So, though the other guitarist behaved like a jerk, he was also right. We could have had the same outcome of my being asked to leave, but saved the friendship. But that's not what happened. So today, I'm angry and hurt. And I'm choosing to move on and remember the fun that we had as a band before the pain set in.

I'm posting here because of my grief and loss. Getting older means that the body accumulates wear and tear. With wear and tear comes more limitations. As a counselor told me once, sometimes things really are as bad as they look. Facing reality is hard. And, as Betty White once said,“Old age ain't no place for sissies.” When I was in my teens and 20s, my rock and roll self joked that I wouldn't make it past 30. Here I am at 62 with a wonderful wife and a terrific, talented son. I am grateful. And I pray that my health recovers to the point that I can do what I love so much - play the guitar.
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I am sorry to hear of your struggles, that sucks. I totally can relate. I had to go through occupational therapy for my picking hand. I developed an issue where the muscle in my thumb would seize and I could hold a pick. It only happened at shows, which sucked. It turns out that all these years of head banging f'd up my neck, which contributed to my thumb issue. Now when I play shows, I have to be pretty chill. Getting old does have it challenges.

The way the band ended their relationship with you sounds like a dick move, sorry man. Keep your chin up. I am sure better things will come along!
 
Rich5150 said:
So sorry to hear about you ailments, and the band. It could have been handled a lot more tactfully than that, but people always show there true colors eventually. Hope your health and pain get to the point where you can play again even if for the enjoyment of it.
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Thank you for your kindness. Yeah, I've been in bands for years. Unfortunately I've dealt with people with no social graces in the past. I'm usually on guard, at least in the beginning, but this time I got snookered. Oh well . . .

It is sad. But it isn't life or death. You do learn about people with time. Unfortunately, I was caught off guard. It happens . . . and I'm blessed to have a loving wife and a nice house and a healthy son. There are many in the world who are suffering much more than me. It doesn't mean that my situation doesn't suck, cause it does. But man, it could be so much worse. So I remain grateful..

My Sunday gig, which I have managed to maintain since my surgery, is with a keyboard player (Brent Pendleton) who was LeAnn Rimes' music director. He is such a nice guy, low key, gracious and generous of spirit. He is also an incredible keyboard player. He recently told me that Andy Timmons was in LeAnn Rimes' band while he was the music director early in LeAnn Rimes career. That kind of blew me away. In little old podunk Olympia, WA.
 
Thanks to all of you for your kindness and thoughtful responses. I am grateful to each of you.

My wife echoed what several of you said - "When one door closes, another one opens" I'm looking forward to what I find when that door opens.

Reading all of your responses lifted my spirit. Thank you!
 
FractalAudio said:
Sorry to hear that. I can't play even 10% of what I used to be able to. I have spinal stenosis and a metal plate in my neck. My hands are weak and slow now due to all the nerve damage.

Arthritis in my ankles and knees from playing racquetball for years.

Getting old sucks.
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I'm sorry to hear this, Cliff. And I couldn't agree more about ailments and getting older. It does suck.
 
@lscottk
Sorry to hear about how the band thing went,
but you’ve accomplished what some like myself were unable to do.
I’ll be 63 soon and have never had the talent or the opportunity to do what you have done.
Best of luck in your future endeavors, whatever they may be.
 
This song came to mind. It fits how I feel right now . . . It's a hymn that has been done by many artists. This version is a favorite:


 
FractalAudio said:
Sorry to hear that. I can't play even 10% of what I used to be able to. I have spinal stenosis and a metal plate in my neck. My hands are weak and slow now due to all the nerve damage.

Arthritis in my ankles and knees from playing racquetball for years.

Getting old sucks.
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Cliff, if you haven't had a laminectomy done to decompress the spinal cord from the stenosis, I highly recommend it. I had it done in the lumbar region and went from being unable to walk more than a few blocks without having to sit down from pain and numbness, back to normal and pain free.

Very sorry to hear about the OP's health issues, i've had 2 ulnar nerve decompression surgeries, both successful, caused by a bone callus build up from an old broken bone. It is very important that if you have any numbness in your hands, you go and get a nerve test as soon as possible. They are one of the simplest and most informative tests doctors can do. Any nerve compression causes not only the loss of sensation, but decreases the strength of the electrical signals coming from the brain to work the muscle. Which then causes it to atrophy and it may take many months, sometimes up to two years to regain that muscle strength after the decompression of the nerve.

Once you have identified the problem, always seek out the best hand surgeon you can find, preferably someone who at least works on athletes, better yet musicians. My first ulnar decompression was done by a sports guy, the second was done by one who specializes in musicians. He was the surgeon who put Mike Stern back together after his bad accident, and he was not impressed with the prior sports surgeon's work...
 
Existential challenges can come any time in life…. But they accumulate more reliably in old age - I’ve had and am coping with my share. I try to take inspiration from others who find ways to overcome limitations - not saying it is always possible, but reinvention is the mother of invention? Two big inspirations:

Django Reinhardt
Pat Martino
 
stereotactic said:
Cliff, if you haven't had a laminectomy done to decompress the spinal cord from the stenosis, I highly recommend it. I had it done in the lumbar region and went from being unable to walk more than a few blocks without having to sit down from pain and numbness, back to normal and pain free.

Very sorry to hear about the OP's health issues, i've had 2 ulnar nerve decompression surgeries, both successful, caused by a bone callus build up from an old broken bone. It is very important that if you have any numbness in your hands, you go and get a nerve test as soon as possible. They are one of the simplest and most informative tests doctors can do. Any nerve compression causes not only the loss of sensation, but decreases the strength of the electrical signals coming from the brain to work the muscle. Which then causes it to atrophy and it may take many months, sometimes up to two years to regain that muscle strength after the decompression of the nerve.

Once you have identified the problem, always seek out the best hand surgeon you can find, preferably someone who at least works on athletes, better yet musicians. My first ulnar decompression was done by a sports guy, the second was done by one who specializes in musicians. He was the surgeon who put Mike Stern back together after his bad accident, and he was not impressed with the prior sports surgeon's work...
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Thanks for the info. I had a nerve study pretty early on in my saga. The nerve study came back as normal, even though I had clear weakness in my ring and pinky fingers. The hamate bone was the initial culprit. I've had a disk issue (between C4 & C5) in my neck since 1985. I have been told that this is where the ulnar nerve exits the spine. The impingement is irritating the nerve. At least I think that's it.

I'm seeing my doctor (she's my PCP) next week. She is pretty brilliant, so I'm hoping that she can help me figure out what to do next. I'll probably go back to the same guy who did my hand surgery. He does specialize in sports injuries (a broken hamate bone is a common injury for baseball players). I live in Washington State, about an hour South of Seattle. Do you have any ideas about how to find a doctor or surgeon who specializes in treating musicians?

I've been standing up at our practices. I have light guitars, but any pressure from a strap appears to be too much, especially if I'm standing up. I also use a strap when I'm sitting because I am otherwise tensing up too much to keep the guitar stable when I practice. I just ordered something called the "Performaxe" from a company in Italy. I heard about this device from Tim Pierce's YouTube channel. He was having neck issues that was impacting his practice. He said that using the Performaxe did wonders. I ordered one earlier this week. Not sure how long shipping from Italy will take.

I'm looking for a way to hold the guitar while standing that places all of the weight on my hips/waist, with no weight on my shoulders. I've only found one option, that still puts some weight on the shoulder, though it sounds like the weight is more evenly distributed to both shoulders. The biggest reason that I won't even try this option is that it requires drilling holes in my guitars. I have three Knaggs, a Godin LGXT and a Grosh Retro Classic as my main instruments. I wouldn't drill an extra hole in even my Godin, let alone any of my higher end guitars. So this isn't an option for me.

So I am trying to design something myself. I know I'm not the only guitarist with these sorts of problems, so maybe there is a market. I just need to design something is easy to use, cost effective, and preserves the integrity of the instrument. I'm still working on ideas. Hopefully I'll figure something out.
 
SJB said:
Existential challenges can come any time in life…. But they accumulate more reliably in old age - I’ve had and am coping with my share. I try to take inspiration from others who find ways to overcome limitations - not saying it is always possible, but reinvention is the mother of invention? Two big inspirations:

Django Reinhardt
Pat Martino
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I had the opportunity to take a workshop with Pat Martino in Seattle when I was 14 or 15. It was at a small studio on 45th, in the Wallingford district. There were only 10 - 12 students in the workshop. What an amazing musician Pat Martino is. I know that he had a stroke, which impacted his ability to play. I haven't been tracking how he is doing, though. To be honest, I thought that he had passed away.

He was so far above my knowledge and ability that I spent most of the time just trying to understand what he was saying. The biggest thing that I took away from the workshop was that, with any note played, you're no more than one note away from a note that is in the key or scale you're playing in. His explanation was much more elegant and complete than mine. But it has stuck with me for all these years. It helped me re-frame my notion of what a "mistake" is. I also started to look at sour notes as opportunities, rather than screw ups.
 
lscottk said:
Thanks for the info. I had a nerve study pretty early on in my saga. The nerve study came back as normal, even though I had clear weakness in my ring and pinky fingers. The hamate bone was the initial culprit. I've had a disk issue (between C4 & C5) in my neck since 1985. I have been told that this is where the ulnar nerve exits the spine. The impingement is irritating the nerve. At least I think that's it.

I'm seeing my doctor (she's my PCP) next week. She is pretty brilliant, so I'm hoping that she can help me figure out what to do next. I'll probably go back to the same guy who did my hand surgery. He does specialize in sports injuries (a broken hamate bone is a common injury for baseball players). I live in Washington State, about an hour South of Seattle. Do you have any ideas about how to find a doctor or surgeon who specializes in treating musicians?

I've been standing up at our practices. I have light guitars, but any pressure from a strap appears to be too much, especially if I'm standing up. I also use a strap when I'm sitting because I am otherwise tensing up too much to keep the guitar stable when I practice. I just ordered something called the "Performaxe" from a company in Italy. I heard about this device from Tim Pierce's YouTube channel. He was having neck issues that was impacting his practice. He said that using the Performaxe did wonders. I ordered one earlier this week. Not sure how long shipping from Italy will take.

I'm looking for a way to hold the guitar while standing that places all of the weight on my hips/waist, with no weight on my shoulders. I've only found one option, that still puts some weight on the shoulder, though it sounds like the weight is more evenly distributed to both shoulders. The biggest reason that I won't even try this option is that it requires drilling holes in my guitars. I have three Knaggs, a Godin LGXT and a Grosh Retro Classic as my main instruments. I wouldn't drill an extra hole in even my Godin, let alone any of my higher end guitars. So this isn't an option for me.

So I am trying to design something myself. I know I'm not the only guitarist with these sorts of problems, so maybe there is a market. I just need to design something is easy to use, cost effective, and preserves the integrity of the instrument. I'm still working on ideas. Hopefully I'll figure something out.
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Thanks for the information about the relationship between your cervical problems and nerve impingement. To be clear, the nerve test I'm talking about is the one with the tiny needles which are pushed into the skin to find the nerve to transmit very weak electrical current through the nerve from one point to another, to figure out if there is normal level of transmission or current loss due to compression. Sounds more painful than it is.

As for non shoulder straps, have you seen this?

https://slingerstraps.com/products/hip-strap-guitar-strap

As for finding hand surgeons who specialize in treating musicians, I've been living in New York City for 36 years and know lots of musicians, so I was able to find a great surgeon through friends. If I had to start from scratch, I would try to speak with a string player in the nearest professional orchestra and ask if they know a good hand surgeon.
 
stereotactic said:
Thanks for the information about the relationship between your cervical problems and nerve impingement. To be clear, the nerve test I'm talking about is the one with the tiny needles which are pushed into the skin to find the nerve to transmit very weak electrical current through the nerve from one point to another, to figure out if there is normal level of transmission or current loss due to compression. Sounds more painful than it is.

As for non shoulder straps, have you seen this?

https://slingerstraps.com/products/hip-strap-guitar-strap

As for finding hand surgeons who specialize in treating musicians, I've been living in New York City for 36 years and know lots of musicians, so I was able to find a great surgeon through friends. If I had to start from scratch, I would try to speak with a string player in the nearest professional orchestra and ask if they know a good hand surgeon.
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Thanks for your reply. I'm pretty sure that the nerve study that I had was as you describe. I had it 8 or 9 years ago, so I'm not completely certain. I did have needles inserted and I was told that it would be painful. It did hurt, but wasn't too bad, so maybe they test was faulty? I'm not sure... My hand issue improved after the surgery, though it took time for my hand to start working well.

My mother is a musician in Seattle. She plays the oboe and has musician friend's. I'll start there.

Thank you for the link to the hip strap. I did see this in the past. I have balked at using it because it requires drilling a hole in the lower bout of any guitar I use it with. I have some higher end guitars that I didn't want to permanently alter. Perhaps that was a silly decision. I honestly thought that my troubles were over. Now, that I know that this is not the case, I'll have to revisit the decision not to alter my instruments with a new hole in the lower bout. I'm still reeling from the shock of what happened, though things are calming down. If it means I can play, then I guess that it's worth drilling a hole in a guitar or two.

Thanks again for the info.

Best,
Scott
 
I just bought one of the straps on https://slingerstraps.com/products/hip-strap-guitar-strap

I hate having to modify my guitars, but I'd rather modify a guitar and play than the other way around.

I have an appointment with my awesome doctor on December 13th. She will help me find a specialist to deal with my neck issue and send me to a physical therapist. I have hope! And I've managed to mend damage with band members. I'm going to check in with them (except for the knucklehead (or is it chucklehead?) guitarist who started all the drama. The rest of the guys are civilized humans, so we'll see what happens in a couple of months.

The drama was so easily avoided. All it takes is one loose cannon. And I'm grateful that I have options to explore so that I can continue to play and perform.

For others going through what I am going through, in addition to slingerstraps.com, check out the Performaxe. Here is the link: https://guitarscientist.com/performaxe/ Availability has been a problem because it is a small company. You can also check out a review from Tim Pierce on YouTube. I have one of these on order. It ships from Italy. Hopefully it helps. Here is the link to Tim Pierce's YouTube video:

Here is another Tim Pierce video where he talks his own neck nerve impingement. He also mentions how Strandberg instruments have helped and about the chair that he uses:
 
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