Headphone tone

S

shep

Inspired
I set my AxeFx up in my studio monitors. I get it sounding as I wish. If my wife wants to watch TV or sleep, i put my cans on. The sound in cans is markedly different, never in a good way. One user said 'I get freaking amazing sounds with my headphones on'. I have 2 sets of AKG's - 141 and 271. I've yet to hear anything I've liked in them. Why would there be such a disparity?
 
I have some cheap Fostex monitors and an AKG K240 headset. I think everything actually sounds a bit better in the phones than the speakers. Especially when using stereo effects.

Maybe your monitors and phones simply have very different frequency responses or whatever it's called?
 
The AXE sounds amazing on my AKG 271... better then on my Sennheiser HD600.
So.... what's wrong?
Are you using the same amp as for the speakers?
If you listen to a CD on the headphones... does that sound good?

Maybe you are missing that whole speaker-guitar interaction.
If you usually play loud... and with gain you get that extra (and wonderful) speaker-guitar interaction.
It's easy to check, put the headphones on and while playing turn on the speakers as well....!
If it suddenly sounds great then at least you know.


Of course, headphones are what they are.
Given a choice I would always choose my monitors.
Having "air" thrown at you will always be more natural feeling then having these little 1" drivers in your ear.

;)
 
I'm using a set of ATH-M40fs studiophones 'Audio Technica' and "i get amazing sounds form my phones".
I bought them cause that's what they had, and they were under 100 bucks and said flat response.
I can confirm the sound i hear thru them sounds the same on other speakers within range, luck of the draw i guess.

If your just trying to use the same patch as you use thru your monitors just plugging in phones and your monitors are colored more than your phones or vice versa,
then yeah it's not going to sound the same. Make a patch for your phones with your phones.

But like i said with this set, when i play something back thru my speakers (which are just 2.1 set of logitech thx and i have them pre eqe'd to my room as best as possible so cd's tested by stuff i've listened to for 20+ years and you just know how it's supposed to sound,..which is actually rather dull usually but sound true) comes out sounding pretty much the same, a little variance due to there being a sub but minimal because the frequencies are usually above the sub range.

Also what are your phones plugging into?
My axe plugs into an Alesis multimix8 usb 1 channel mono, phones plug into that with everything set flat on the mixer. When i record, it's just usb out to pc.
Stereo is awesome but i started using mono, because stereo is deceiving when building a patch and not real world how you would usually record anyway.
 
Thanks for chiming in, guys. I have a Presonus Central Station. Speakers are Roland D5's (low end stuff) with CD in the cans or speakers sounds good. I think the cans are lacking the 'body, fullness, and sparkle' the speakers have. I don't know why. It was that way back when I used Revalver, too. It's like something gets lost in the cans.

I'm simply plugging in the 1/4" out into a channel of the Presonus FS, which goes ADAT into a RME 9632. I'm not even listening through Sonar, just the soundcard. I can turn the stereo fx on or off, but that doesn't really deceive my sense of the tone.

I don't know how this landed in Amps and Cabs - i was reading in general Discussion when I decided to post.

Feel free to move it...
 
Hmn, well, i checked out the phones you have and they don't sound like something i would
choose for the axe myself, but if i had em already i'd probably use them unless i was having the problem your having,
but Andrew likes them so dunno?

I bought these specifically for the axe and recording, http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/9 ... H_M40.html
I'd say check them out at $55 bucks it's worth a shot, i don't know why they are so cheap they have better specs than some really expensive ones i see there costing 3x as much lol, probably just the no frills design. I payed like 89+ tax locally. They are labeled specifically as full range flat response 5Hz - 28kHz, Dunno how much of that is marketing or whatever but if these broke i'd buy another set from the results i've gotten.

gl
 
I love the tone of my Axe through headphones. I don't change anything in the patches between my monitors and the "cans." I play through AKG 240DFs, M-Audio IE-40 IEMs, and a cheap pair. Sounds great on all three.

- John
 
i have a pair of akg 240's and rokit 5 monitors. i find that the cans copy my direct recording sound where as the monitors sound more 'trebly'.
 
I guess I'm perplexed as a to which source I should trust. Here's a clip of a tone I dialed in w/ the speakers. It's leaning toward the scooped modern (pretty sure there's too much low end) sound in my speakers, but it has more mids and less body and crispness on top in the cans. What do you guys hear in your rooms? Hopefully a simiar answer from a number of listeners will help me figure this out. Thanks, Shep

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1870114/IIC%2B% ... 20test.mp3

Recorded w/ Charvel Model 6 into Mark IV and mark IIC+ amps w/ a couple different redwierz IRs.
 
this is my 5150 settings, this is a popular setting for heavy metal bands and similar eq setting that evh used with his 5150, i like to use the cali, recto 2, and 20w cabs depending on what sound im after. i think i dig the 20 w the best. This amp should always use a od...i set it for 100% these days, if its to mushy i will pull off some of the output from the pedal. Eq the highs to taste and if your after more mids raise it to 3 instead of 2. I use these settings with a real cab as well, the presence will change depending on how loud you have it.
 

Attachments

  • rcm5150.syx
    2 KB · Views: 14
On my 2.1 it sounds pretty good.
I get not a lot of bass as you said, nothings coming out of my sub and it should'nt be, that sounds like a good rhythm range.
It sounds kinda, well it's more megadeth than metallica on my end if that makes any sense not really either one but just used as something to compare two points A and B,.. i get mids and that higher mid grind. Doesn't sound scooped really, sounds like with bass guitar on that it would sound really good mix well and fill it out.

...I'm clicking thru .flacs
metallica and megadeth, man some of those tones are really shitty actually, haha..
And Justice.. just concentrating on the guitars they sound like garbage HAHA, man i loved that album too.
Some of this stuff i haven't listened to much since it was on cassettes...especially metallica, this enhances it hard from what i remember it sounding like.
Yeah i got these logitechs pretty dialed in i think, completely different than before i pre eq'd them where they were just a kind of a blob, i can hear all the seperation and panning really well, everythings real crisp.

Go to Hell has a sick rhythm sound stil do like that, Angry Again.. sounds like shit...

trying my phones on your track..

Has all the definition... i can hear that pristine quality of the axe comming thru and the resonance of the cab ect... sounds pretty much the same.

Dunno, Rolands may be colored, or maybe your phones are just dull, but sounds good here and better than some of those metallica megadeth tracks i just listened to, lol.

Ah one thing, when i wear the phones playing with the axe, they gotta be on my head dead center, if i start hanging my head and slouching and if they move forward of axis, even just a little the sound changes quite a bit, IE it starts to get more dull, or the mids change ect.
I finally realized that's what was going on once, cause i was constantly tweaking back on my axe after i thought i had it perfect, then i thought the sound seemed to change or my ears were getting fatigued or something. It was my phones shifting on my head if i was slouching or they moved around, check your not doing that too.
gl
 
I really appreciate your time checking into this. The tone I'm shooting for with the Mesa amps is hopefully a mainstream- progressive/not too much gain sound, like say, John Petrucci's Damage Control. But I know it's not nearly that good.

I did alot of treatment in my room - (4) floor to ceiling super chuncks, (6) 2x4 wall mounts, and a 2x8 cloud, all w/ OC705. Maybe I still need to do like the ARC thing as Ididn't want to pay for the testing mic/software. Then find a pair of cans that most closely resemble my speakers. Or maybe bite the bullet and get different monitors. But that would kill my extreme need for a couple FRFR's and a MCF101 - frickin' GAS is breaking me - that and the fact that work has been about $15,000 light this year... UGH What would you do? Thanks again - Shep
 
Yeah i understand about work, mines been about 30k+ light :?
I'm praying i don't have to sell my axe, it's looking imminent.. already guitars are gone and other stuff, and both my cars are down hard.

I just listened to Damage Control, and honestly to me your patch sounds pretty close to that opening tone, i think yours sounds better tho has a little more meat.

I was going to soundproof and all that, but i first decided to just try my hand at pre'eqing my system with my ears via reading and checking out how they use those things to tune a room - I dropped the 400 and 200 range a bit also muffled my sub port that was the most major change with a full mix of drums and bass no more woof bass is much more discernible, raised 600 slightly and on up around 10k ect just tiny amounts talking 0.6 0.8 db. It's eq on my sound card so any sound to my speakers goes thru that eq first. I monitor at a respectably low volume so there not a lot of reflections in the room, also muffled my sub port and did put some foam on either side of it.
I forget what the crossover is on it, but generally raw guitars don't come out of the sub at all unless downtuned hard. Other than that the satellites are about 2 feet from my head on either side so i don't need to turn it up really loud to hear exactly what's going on. After that i felt i didn't need to spend the money on monitors and foam all around, it would be nice but for 700-1000 dollars on some AdamsAX7 i heard no way, what i have is plenty close to that clarity, less irritating highs to, i would say better at 140 bucks and i have more range with a sub. People will laugh i'm sure, but hey i've heard the nice higher end rockets the adams the yamahas, and sitting where im sitting and can tell you dollar for dollar compared is not worth it. In a real studio, yeah it be totally different ball game, but small room, nah.
 
If you read the post that JoeGold has posted the link tho, you'll notice I said:
I've tried it with my speakers (B&W DM602) pretty loud and my IEM4s.
Didn't make that much difference to me.
It's not what I'm looking for.
What I meant was that headphones seem to emphasise a lot of the high frequencies.
Click to expand...

Sa, the coupling effect that Cliff was talking about isn't responsible for headphones not sounding good.
I compared the guitar sound on a cd and a sound on my Axe-fx that was quite similar sounding through my speakers and then the same through headphones and IEMS.
Through the speakers they sounded quite similar but through headphones and IEMS a lot more harsh and not pleasing at all.
Not like through the speakers.
And I was playing quite loud when playing through the speakers.
I even kept the speakers on when listening through the IEM's.
Headphonesd and IEM sound worse and I still ahven't received an answer as to why.
I'm using three way Variphone Es3x.
 
I don't know,
Besides playing thru a 4x12 cab with a power amp i play through headphones all the time and i have no problem at all with it, I love it.
With a cab and power amp of course it's a lot more weighted feeling, more push/pull - especially loud, but with headphones to me the sound is comparable within acceptable region, i wouldn't say it is extremely different at all,(to me), but the feel is a bit different yes.

But the axe through phones is A Lot better than anything i've ever played through with headphones on, i mean it's amazing to say the least.
Maybe you all are expecting too much from a set of headphones, you are playing through headphones yes it's not going to "feel" exactly like playing through a cab,
that's a given. But you should be able to dial in amazing sounds with them. I have a smile ear to ear playing through them, it's incredible frankly.

Like i mentioned earlier, the phones i'm using are labled full or extended range & flat response, most are not, the akgs or whatever the ones mention being used in this thread are not. Fact i didn't see any that costed even close to 200 dollars that were. I don't know if it's actually making a massive difference or not i don't have any others to compare, but since the axe is basically recommended using full range speaker, maybe it does. People step up to frfr from a cab and they say it's a big difference.


Which ones would you buy?

AKG K 271 MK II Professional Studio Headphones $269.00

Type Closed-Back, Supra-Aural, Dynamic
Frequency Range 16Hz - 28kHz
Impedance 55 Ohms
Sensitivity 91dB
Maximum Input Power 200mW

Audio-Technica ATH-M40fs Professional Studio Monitor Headphones $54.09

Type Around-Ear, Closed-Back, Dynamic
Frequency Range 5Hz - 28kHz
Impedance 60 Ohms
Sensitivity 100dB
Maximum Input Power 1600mW
 
I'll try to make this as clear as I possibly can:
- If I listen to a cd on my speakers (B&W DM602) it sounds the same through my headphones or at least just as good
- When I'm playing wwith a guitarsound on the Axe-fx, that sounds good on my speakers AND comparable to the one on the cd, it doesn't sound good on the headphones and IEMs

It has nothing to do with:
- expecting to much from headphones
- coupling effect from playing with the speakers on since I've tried this with the IEM's

I've tried all the tricks mentioned and nothing seems to help.
 
When you record a track using your monitors you can make it sound and feel good on your monitors, right?

When you then listen to that track using headphones does it then sound bad?
I'm going to guess that your answer will be "no". That it sounds fine on headphones too.

When you listen to guitar parts from a commercial CD on headphones it sounds fine, right?

So, if it only sounds bad to you when you're playing your guitar and monitoring through headphones there must be something else going on, right?

Well, the link I provided earlier has Cliff explaining pretty clearly why that happens.
He's a pretty bright guy and I tend to listen to him when he speaks.

So, if it still sounds bad when you use headphones but also have a speaker sounding in the same room as you, then maybe you'll need to adjust the level of that speaker so that it sounds/feels better.

Or, just don't use headphones while you're tracking guitar.
 
Yeah i would say maybe it's just not for you don't know, i have no adverse affects either way, i obviously choose to play through headphones as opposed to my speakers.
Maybe my standards on what's acceptable are lower, lol.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom