Having trouble with direct tone

L

LegatoMan

Member
Let me first set this straight: I am truly blown away by the effects. Reverb, Chorus, Delay, Synth, Pitch, ... all incredible, high quality effects. The formant filter is mind-blowing.

But to be honest, I am having trouble getting a nice distortion sound. I don't really have a rack power amp or anything. I simply run the Axe Fx into an interface, and into my computer. The whole reason I bought the Ultra is so that I could achieve great distortion even in home recordings. And after trying out amps, cabinets and compressors for a week, I find I still haven't reached a satisfactory result. The distortion still sounds "cheesy" and "digital". And, if you take away the cabinet simulation, it's really scary how ugly the distorted amps sound.

So am I missing something here? I've experimented with all the knobs and gadgets in the amp simulator menu, and nothing seemed to improve on what I felt was the problem. I recorded a sample that demonstrates one thing that bothers me in particular: a sort of "overdriven fuzziness" on muted power chords. It sounds as if something is clipping, but neither the red light on the Axe Fx output nor the red light on the input of the Tascam interface lit up. Can hear what is happening? And what I can do to get rid of it?

http://www.zshare.net/audio/76622521e9f874b4/

Thanks a lot.
 
Can you define "cheesy" and "digital"? ;)

I can't listen to your clip at work, but here are a couple of ideas. You might explore the use of the high-cut frequency parameter (Advanced tab of AMP block). Try lowering the HF cut frequency.

Also, try reducing the Axe-Fx output level a bit, on the off chance that it's too hot for the Tascam input stage -- even though there is no "red light" clip indicator showing on the Tascam, some peaks may still be getting shaved off.
 
Sounds fine to me. Of course it will sound terrible with the cab sims turned off. Try recording a tube amp direct, just as nasty.

You may want to turn the Master down a bit to tighten up the low end.

My guess is you need better monitors.
 
Yep thats why the cab sims are there..so it doesn't sound terrible. Have you tried the Redwirez IR's? They might make a difference to your opinions. I personally have never once felt that my Axefx sounds 'digital' and i've had all other digital effects units out there. Good luck.
 
Yeah the lowend is very flubby for lack of a better term on your palm mutes. Like xrist suggested, adjust the low cut and high cut parameters in the advanced tab of amp. e.g. 100hz for low and 6K-8khz (adjust to taste)in the highs might help.
 
Thanks for all the replies. I shall experiment with the low cut & high cut parameters.

Would it make a big difference in tone if I plugged the Axe Fx into a power amp? I was really impressed by Mark Day's videos, but I suspect that he was using a power amp and he also mic'd a real cabinet. Will I ever be able to recreate Mark Day's sound just with direct tone?
 
I have analyzed your sample and you have a maximum sample value of -0.005 dB which adds distortion to the sound. Optimum value is on -0.3 db where it is considered a distortion free zone (99%). Also you have a high RMS value of -11 dB. Also it does not clip, but a lower value of dB would be preferred. In other words you are recording too hot! You don´t have any headroom for mastering, and good value for recording is between -12 and -9 dB. Hope I helped :p
 
Fender308 said:
I have analyzed your sample and you have a maximum sample value of -0.005 dB which adds distortion to the sound. Optimum value is on -0.3 db where it is considered a distortion free zone (99%). Also you have a high RMS value of -11 dB. Also it does not clip, but a lower value of dB would be preferred. In other words you are recording too hot! You don´t have any headroom for mastering, and good value for recording is between -12 and -9 dB. Hope I helped :p
Click to expand...

Mhm, it's happened to me before, as well.
xrist04 said:
Also, try reducing the Axe-Fx output level a bit, on the off chance that it's too hot for the Tascam input stage -- even though there is no "red light" clip indicator showing on the Tascam, some peaks may still be getting shaved off.
Click to expand...
 
Umm... I brought the entire clip up to a louder level before I uploaded it... so I don't think it's the decibel's fault...

I was thinking about getting a power amp, because that seems to be the ultimate in what the Axe Fx can achieve. But then I thought: I already have a power amp! In my old Peavy combo amp!

So I looked it up in the manual, and found out that you need to plug the guitar into the Axe Fx, and the Axe Fx into the "return" of the combo amp. However, when I did this, I got a horrible buzzing sound that I couldn't get rid of. I even turned off the amp and cab simulations, but I still got this really loud buzzing. What could be wrong?
 
LegatoMan said:
So I looked it up in the manual, and found out that you need to plug the guitar into the Axe Fx, and the Axe Fx into the "return" of the combo amp. However, when I did this, I got a horrible buzzing sound that I couldn't get rid of. I even turned off the amp and cab simulations, but I still got this really loud buzzing. What could be wrong?
Click to expand...

Could this be a ground loop?
 
I had the same issue this morning with the Diezel VH4 patch I was running. You have to dial down the bass. Its funny how little bass is needed for recording tones. I was barely running any bass at the pre-amp stage.

Kill the low-end because from your recording it seems like there's too much.

And as someone stated earlier... you need a cab to make the tone good. I ran a Diezel Eintien into my Atomic reactor Wedge for fun... and it was HORRIBLE. Amplifiers need cabs.. in the Axe-FX virtual world and the real world.
 
jbcrazy said:
I had the same issue this morning with the Diezel VH4 patch I was running. You have to dial down the bass. Its funny how little bass is needed for recording tones. I was barely running any bass at the pre-amp stage.

Kill the low-end because from your recording it seems like there's too much.

And as someone stated earlier... you need a cab to make the tone good. I ran a Diezel Eintien into my Atomic reactor Wedge for fun... and it was HORRIBLE. Amplifiers need cabs.. in the Axe-FX virtual world and the real world.
Click to expand...

Hey, thanks for addressing the clip. You're right, dialing down the bass really helped! :)

I also fixed the ground loop problem by plugging the combo amp and the Axe Fx into the same extension cord :cool:
 
jbcrazy said:
I had the same issue this morning with the Diezel VH4 patch I was running. You have to dial down the bass. Its funny how little bass is needed for recording tones. I was barely running any bass at the pre-amp stage.

Kill the low-end because from your recording it seems like there's too much.

And as someone stated earlier... you need a cab to make the tone good. I ran a Diezel Eintien into my Atomic reactor Wedge for fun... and it was HORRIBLE. Amplifiers need cabs.. in the Axe-FX virtual world and the real world.
Click to expand...

+10 That was the problem that was vexing me as well. The bass was flubby and loose when recording direct. I was throwing PEQ's fore and aft of the amp/cabs to try and dial out some bass. Didn't occur to me to simply adjust the low cut freq on the advanced page and lower the overall bass on the basic page. I think I have my bass at 1.00 and for recording, it's sits in the mix extremely well.

Thanks for the tip!
 
LegatoMan said:
Let me first set this straight: I am truly blown away by the effects. Reverb, Chorus, Delay, Synth, Pitch, ... all incredible, high quality effects. The formant filter is mind-blowing.

But to be honest, I am having trouble getting a nice distortion sound. I don't really have a rack power amp or anything. I simply run the Axe Fx into an interface, and into my computer. The whole reason I bought the Ultra is so that I could achieve great distortion even in home recordings. And after trying out amps, cabinets and compressors for a week, I find I still haven't reached a satisfactory result. The distortion still sounds "cheesy" and "digital". And, if you take away the cabinet simulation, it's really scary how ugly the distorted amps sound.

So am I missing something here? I've experimented with all the knobs and gadgets in the amp simulator menu, and nothing seemed to improve on what I felt was the problem. I recorded a sample that demonstrates one thing that bothers me in particular: a sort of "overdriven fuzziness" on muted power chords. It sounds as if something is clipping, but neither the red light on the Axe Fx output nor the red light on the input of the Tascam interface lit up. Can hear what is happening? And what I can do to get rid of it?

http://www.zshare.net/audio/76622521e9f874b4/

Thanks a lot.
Click to expand...
I am having trouble with this as well. With super higher gain patches I either get a static rustling sound along with a good distortion sound or I get a digital sound like underwater or driving while on a cell phone underwater digital stirring sound.

I am finding that sometimes you can't hear what you are tweaking into the unit and end up trying to strong-arm what you want out of it. Like too much gain and bass is added because you can't tell what you are hearing and the signal clips and sounds like distorting of the distortion.

The 2nd big thing is; The Fractal has several output options which are +4 dBu balanced XLR or unbalanced TS jacks on out #1 or a spdif digital connection which I know exists, but don't have a digital in on my equipment so never used it. That is some of the Fractals OUTs, but what are you sending it into??? Are you going into an XLR rated at line level (+4 dBu) or TS line in rated correctly. Quick mistakes you can make are sending the out into a microphone input with the wrong impedance and level, sending the direct out (XLR or TS from fractal) into a line input rated at -10dBu instead of a line input rated at +4 dBu. Also, buying a direct box will change the impedance to mic impedance, but I don't think they change the output to a MIC LEVEL INPUT to go into a mic jack on whatever you are sending into. Some super cheap crappy equipment have preamps that are second rate.

These are a couple of thing s to consider. Basically however you are coming out of your Fractal has to match whatever you are going into or you will get compromised performance.
 
Jase2677 said:
a digital sound like underwater or driving while on a cell phone
Click to expand...

Yes! :mrgreen: That's exactly what I mean. It's like listening to a low quality stream from the internet. It sounds digitally "compressed".

I don't understand too much about impedance or electricity... but this is the setup I used to record that clip:

Axe Fx "Output 1 Balanced XLR" -> Tascam US-122mkII "Mic in" -> My computer's USB jack -> Cubase.
 
Should be line in really - the mic inputs are different impedance

Try the unbalanced outs into line inputs and see if that helps

To use the balanced connection, you'll either need a desk with pad switching, a DI box or more along the lines of which I'm sure Fractal intended, a pair of XLR to Stereo TRS 1/4 Jack leads ;)
 
LegatoMan said:
Jase2677 said:
a digital sound like underwater or driving while on a cell phone
Click to expand...

Yes! :mrgreen: That's exactly what I mean. It's like listening to a low quality stream from the internet. It sounds digitally "compressed".

I don't understand too much about impedance or electricity... but this is the setup I used to record that clip:

Axe Fx "Output 1 Balanced XLR" -> Tascam US-122mkII "Mic in" -> My computer's USB jack -> Cubase.
Click to expand...
It sounds like you are doing the same wrong type of thing I am doing. I bought a direct box so I could plug my Ultra into a mic jack. But that still does not fix the +4 dBu level of the Ultra. I have mic inputs on my recorder as well as -10 dBu line ins.

I can do one of two things;
Buy a +4 dBu to -10 dBu line level converter and plug into my recorder's line level inputs.

OR, and this is theoretically possible, but probably not the best way at all to do it; Buy a line level converter as mentioned above and then into a direct box that changes the impedance in addition to the level to mic level impedance and go into my recorder's mic inputs.

For you, from what I can make out, you probably need to do number two, but I don't recommend it. Seriously look at the specs on your ins and outs of what you are doing. You know you are either coming out of your axe-fx balanced XLR or unbalanced TS; both at +4 dBu's. The next step is what connection method do you convert that to what you are going into. Similar to, you have A and C, so you need what B step in the middle to get their correctly. And B isn't things like peanut butter and dog sh*t, but more along the lines of this or that DI or converter box.
 
LegatoMan said:
Jase2677 said:
a digital sound like underwater or driving while on a cell phone
Click to expand...

Yes! :mrgreen: That's exactly what I mean. It's like listening to a low quality stream from the internet. It sounds digitally "compressed".

I don't understand too much about impedance or electricity... but this is the setup I used to record that clip:

Axe Fx "Output 1 Balanced XLR" -> Tascam US-122mkII "Mic in" -> My computer's USB jack -> Cubase.
Click to expand...

TO update my ultra, I just have a midi in and out Y cord with a USB at the other end. Can something like this be used as a connector all the time to the computer??? Check in your manual???
 
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