Having Problems with feedback when playing live MARK DAY PATCH...

boltrecords

boltrecords

Fractal Fanatic
Having Problems with feedback when playing live PROBLEM SOLVED!!!!

i played a show this weekend and noticed that a lot of my high gain patches are getting a weird high pitched squeeling type of feedback. not a normal sounding feedback.
i notice it the most on Mark Day's patch he made for Journey Separate Ways.
i tried turning up the gate but it doesnt really help much.

the weird thing is that i dont get the feedback when cranking the axe 2 at home. im running it through an atomic amp and i crank it at home at about the same volume as at my shows but its fine at home.
could the house speakers be causing feedback.

when i was at my gig and i heard the feedback, i tried tapping on the strings above the bridge pup and it made the squeeling noise happen when i did this.

for the show this weekend, i had my rig about 15 feet behind me. so it wasnt because i was too close.

not sure why this is happening. its really only on the really high gain patches.

any ideas?
 
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How close are you to the speakers. High-pitched squealing can be magnetic feedback (as opposed to acoustic). If you are in close proximity to the speakers the magnetic field from the driver will couple into the pickups which causes a squeal.
 
one of the main PA speakers was about 8-10 feet to the left of me. at about the same elevation as i was standing.
this is not the first time ive noticed this squealing sound.
using these same presets, i nnotice them if im sitting too close to the atomic cab.

if i hit a fast chord and then mute, the squeal noise is muted by the gate but then it just sounds like a beeping noise every time i mute the strings.
 
I would say this is magnetic feedback. The more gain and the louder you are the more it will happen.
 
not knowing exactly where you were in ralation to the speaker...
but would it help being well behind rather than along side the PA skeaker..

also... is the Axe2 connected directly to the PA or are you backline cabs mic'd?
 
clarky said:
not knowing exactly where you were in ralation to the speaker...
but would it help being well behind rather than along side the PA skeaker..

also... is the Axe2 connected directly to the PA or are you backline cabs mic'd?
Click to expand...

That would make sense to be behind the speaker, but it all depends on the venue and stage layout. that was just the position i had to be in at that venue.
come to think of it, even the venues where i am further from the PA i am still getting that magnetic feedback.
I am going direct to the PA via XLR.

Does this have anything to do with how loud my atomic cab is?
Is it definitely magnetic feedback, even though i can hear the squeal through my in ears too?

Is there a specific eq frequency that i can dial down that may help reduce the feedback?

Or are there any other solutions? some of these patches im using really dont have a ton of gain running. for example, the MARK DAY patch im using has the Freidman HBE gain at about 60-70 percent. im not using the drive pedal and the boost is not on. i did notice that his presets tend to have a lot higher presence setting. can that have something to do with it?
 
I'm going to hazard a guess that the feedback has something to do with a combination of the following:
- where you are with relation to the nearest PA speaker
- volume
- the amount of gain / compression used in that preset
- using the XLR

I doubt it's any one thing causing the prob, more like a sum of all of these things.....

try mic-ing your cab rather than using the XLR.
I'm not hinting that there's anything wrong with the XLR or that using the XLR as a means to connect to a PA is bad..
I'm simply suggesting "try something different and see if it makes a difference"

you're clearly in a bit of a hole right now.. so until you fully understand what the issue is and zero in on it, any way out is a good way out even if this solves the prob by accident rather than by design yeah???
 
Could this have something to do with poor shielding on the guitar? Perhaps some other issue with wiring in the guitar? One of my guitars does this as well, but it has no shielding in it and the wiring is kinda' haphazard (haven't gotten around to fixing it just yet). My other guitars don't seem to have any issues.

Maybe you could try a different guitar and see if that's where your problems are coming from.
 
My JVM has a bad rep in some uneducated circles for squealing, and in our user forum it has been largely traced down to pickups, especially covered ones, like maybe in your LP, and proper wax potting.
But then again: The more gain, the more noise. I'll pick up my 2 this afternoon and then I'll see for myself.:mrgreen

Cheers,

Benji
 
im not sure how well miking the atomic would work. kind of defeats the purpose and benefits of the axe fx by going that route.
i have tried a number of guitars and it seems to be the same on all.

im kinda thinking this may have something to do with my guitar wireless system.
thats really the only variable that is different from home to live settings besides the PA.

when i dial in patches at home im using a guitar cable. live i use the AKG WMS450.
could a wireless system be causing this problem? maybe the wireless is running too hot
 
If u guys soundcheck maybe walk around the stage to see if the squealing becomes more "tolerable" I had a morse guitar when using one of the single coils I would get some unwanted fdbck. I would turn 1/4 to the left and it was gone..... Sucks but stuck in the middle of a set sometimes u have to come up with quick fixes.

I'm sure these guys will figure it out.
 
i may have to post a clip or something. Cliff is right....its definitely some type of magnetic fdbk. not a regular acoustic fdbk. acoustic fdbk should go away when turning down the guitar volume. this squeal noise only goes away with the gate. so if the gate isnt high enough the guitar volume will not get rid of it. i have to change patches.
really weird.
 
micing don't defeat the benefits unless your backline is mono and you intend to go through the PA stereo..
there's so much more to the Axe2 than just being able to XLR to the PA... lol...

anyways... you have things to look into..

- try different guitars
- try using a cable to the Axe from the guitar
- check the config [and battery state] of the wireless system
- try micing rather than XLR

try each thing one at a time... if there's no change go back to the original setup..
cos if you change everything all together and the prob goes you'll not know what caused the issue....

for example...

start with your normal set up - squeals
try new guitar - squeals
go back to original guitar, jack into Axe rather than wireless - squeal stops
we know it's a wireless prob so check all of the wireless side of things to see if something is not setup or working right
if you find something sort it and replace the wireless system
either
- squeals: just go cable for the gig and look into the wireless stuff in more detail at home
- don't squeals: bingo.. you just found the offending 'thing'

and if it squeals with any guitar, connected cable or wireless, try micing instead of using the XLRs
if you're still in trouble after this, then I can only guess that there could be something in your preset config that's changed for the worse maybe?
something that'll add gain / level maybe?? but that's a lot of settings to sift through....

Q - do you get the squealing on all hi-gain patches or just this one in particular????

anyways... I hope you solve this and then go on to play a great gig and then let everyone in here know what you encountered and how you sorted it [cos it's all great info to all of us]
 
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clarky said:
micing don't defeat the benefits unless your backline is mono and you intend to go through the PA stereo..
there's so much more to the Axe2 than just being able to XLR to the PA... lol...

anyways... you have things to look into..

- try different guitars
- try using a cable to the Axe from the guitar
- check the config [and battery state] of the wireless system
- try micing rather than XLR

try each thing one at a time... if there's no change go back to the original setup..
cos if you change everything all together and the prob goes you'll not know what caused the issue....

for example...

start with your normal set up - squeals
try new guitar - squeals
go back to original guitar, jack into Axe rather than wireless - squeal stops
we know it's a wireless prob so check all of the wireless side of things to see if something is not setup or working right
if you find something sort it and replace the wireless system
either
- squeals: just go cable for the gig and look into the wireless stuff in more detail at home
- don't squeals: bingo.. you just found the offending 'thing'

and if it squeals with any guitar, connected cable or wireless, try micing instead of using the XLRs
if you're still in trouble after this, then I can only guess that there could be something in your preset config that's changed for the worse maybe?
something that'll add gain / level maybe?? but that's a lot of settings to sift through....

Q - do you get the squealing on all hi-gain patches or just this one in particular????

anyways... I hope you solve this and then go on to play a great gig and then let everyone in here know what you encountered and how you sorted it [cos it's all great info to all of us]
Click to expand...

I see what youre saying. i just wasnt sure how to go about mic-ing a full range speaker since im not using a regular guitar cab.
thanks for the detail though . im going to try and run through this all really quick to see if i can isolate the problem.
the noise is not on this patch only. i do notice it on others as well. mostly when i try to kick in a drive pedal and up the gain a bit, the noise comes in. i had the same problem with the ultra at times.

i just notice it more with this particular preset. im thinking the higher presence level may be making the noise easier to notice.

either way, thanks for all the help.
ill give this a try and check back in.

the show went awesome and i got tons of complements otherwise. its amazing how much the sound guys love the sound of the axe after the show.
 
Isn't this just the squealing issue (non-controllable high pitched feedback) that a lot of users of powered Atomic cabs have experienced? Do a search, it was quite common (first half of 2010), especially with single coils and being close to the cab. Seems to have disappeared with the wedges etc.
 
OK....figured it out.
it was a wireless issue. turns out all i needed to do was to add plastic washers between the rack ears of the wireless and the rack rails. the squeeling went away completely.
so weird how these wireless units can be soooo finicky.

i tried pullling the wireless unit out of the rack and the noise went away. i then noticed that it only came back when i held the rack ears up against the rails. it must have been getting interference somehow.

thanks for all the help everyone. sorry to waste peoples time. wasnt even an axe problem at all.

fyi, the akg wms450 wireless unit seems to have a lot of intereference problems. this is the second problem ive encountered with this unit. first it was interefering with my furman and now with the entire rack.. lol id stay away if i were looking at wireless units.
 
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dude...
this stuff is never a waste of time.....
plenty of folk in here learn massive amounts following the issues others have...

the killer thing is - as always - is being systematic when trying to localise the problem..
most folk get in a bit of a tizz, make all sorts of changes one of which may solve the prob..
but unfortunately they're none the wiser as to what the prob was..

the trick is always to make one change.. if it don't make a difference, put it back and make another.. and so on...
on occasion though it can be a few things in combination that cause the prob.. that's a real pain when you get that...

usually the prob with everything having the same mechanical contact with a rack chassis is an earth loop..
a smart fella [can't recall who] wrote a superb post about it...
this though seems like something different...
there's got to be some folks in here that are super smart with electronics / RF kit that could come up with some sort of theory as to what was going on here...

anyways...
glad your out of the woods..
interesting thread too..

EDIT: Fractal folks... is there any chance that some clocking freq or other from within the Axe was leaking onto the rack chassis via the casing and the wireless kit was picking this up through it's own casing??? just a crap guess on my part...
 
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i had an issue with this wireless unit conflicting with my furman rack unit back when i had my ultra. i was getting the same high pitched squeal. i had the wireless in the rack directly underneath my furman. when i pulled the wireless out of the rack it worked fine. for some reason it was conflicting with this specific furman i had. so i switched to a different furman and it worked fine. i just think this unit isnt as good of quality when it comes to shielding and frequencies. the whole unit is plastic. maybe that has something to do with it.
anyways, that seemed to be the same issue here. the wireless was causing a frequency issue. i needed to isolate it from the rest of the rack. the squealing was actually there in the low gain patches, it was just being covered by the gate and the lack of gain made it harder to notice.

i should have bought the sennheiser unit. lol
 
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