GR-55 Guitar Modeling + Axe FX Amp Modeling & Effects = Perfect Combination?

[or8ital]

so you got moved to the Lounge...

big whoop

Not sure how this references the quote? Based on your prior response it seems you didn't read or understand the original post before you spouted off so big whoop.

Since the guitar modeling uses COSM tracking isn't an issue, no? It's using magnetic pickups for it.

 

[or8ital]

The VG-99 sounds appealing. Does it have a wider range of guitar models vs the GR-55?

Any feedback on using the guitar models with the II? Does it work as well as the guitar it's modeling or does the process the Roland uses effect the quality of the sound of the II?

 

[scarr]

Based on a quick look over the GR-55 manual, the GR has all the VG's guitar models, extra bass models (although I don't know if it "converts" the sound from a guitar like the VG's basses, or if that's for people hooking a bass up to it), but a couple less synths.

I have a VG-99 going into my AFx (lots of time on the Ultra, a touch on the II), so I can speak to it. The VG has good dynamics in the guitar models. The amps aren't as great as the AFx, but that's why I used the AFx. Relative to an analogue guitar, you'll lose a little something. How much depends on your setup. Using a GK-3/mag pickup tends to work better than piezos, if you use a lot of palm muting. It's definitely more responsive than the original Variax, but I haven't played a JT to compare there.

With the dual models, you can get a lot done in a certain patch. As indicated, you can switch pickups in various ways. I normally have mine set to use the S1/S2 switches to bump up/down on the pickup selector. You can't slam back and forth, but it isn't bad. Since you can run them left/right out of the VG, you can setup completely different signal paths on the AFx, either to run in parallel, or to switch between for different parts of a song (e.g. acoustic intro, then electric chorus). That'll save you the slightly-too-long switch times of the Roland.

Running stuff other than guitar into the AFx is a treat. I use the VG to drive a PolyEvolver, which can make some fun sounds through the VG's second input. That's a third layer available.

(And yes, this belongs in the Lounge. It is only tangentially about the AFx. If you look, you can find a longer post/thread about the VG in here that I started years ago.)

EDIT: I forgot to talk about "tracking" before. Tracking only applies to the ROMpler synths in the GR, or external MIDI with the VG. There isn't any "tracking" with the COSM guitars/synths/instruments, so don't believe anything you hear about that. (The comments thus far weren't clear on this distinction, so I'm clarifying.)

 

[Dramelot]

I have never run my rolands through the fractals. I think there would be way too much weirdness going on with the hex pickup and cosm and fractal. I stick to my EMG's with the fractal. I have Roland gk3's on 5 of my guitars. The one RMC equipped i have works better than the gk's for acoustic tones but not as good on synth and distorted as the gk's. trade offs abound!!!!
i have also converted a few of my EMG sets to 18 Volt. I think it makes a difference, seems less compressed.

 

[steadystate]

I have never run my rolands through the fractals. I think there would be way too much weirdness going on with the hex pickup and cosm and fractal.

The only disadvantage is that using a GR or VG before the Axe will add a slight amount of noise. IMO, well worth the tradeoff for gaining sims of various pickups, guitar bodies, acoustics, dobro, sitar (Coral type), 12-strings, open tunings, synth tones, etc. Nothing weird about it. Roland's amp sims blow, which is why running their products into a Fractal makes perfect sense. The VG-99 also has USB audio in/out, which allows me to reamp with the Ultra much as I would if I had the Axe II. Too bad Roland's product support and maintenance are so pathetic.

 

[Dramelot]

The only disadvantage is that using a GR or VG before the Axe will add a slight amount of noise. IMO, well worth the tradeoff for gaining sims of various pickups, guitar bodies, acoustics, dobro, sitar (Coral type), 12-strings, open tunings, synth tones, etc. Nothing weird about it. Roland's amp sims blow, which is why running their products into a Fractal makes perfect sense. The VG-99 also has USB audio in/out, which allows me to reamp with the Ultra much as I would if I had the Axe II. Too bad Roland's product support and maintenance are so pathetic.

Well i have to agree on the roland amp sims, and might be worth a try.
thanks for the suggestion!
Yes Roland has dropped the ball on VG99 support as far as firmware upgrades.
As far I know the only upgrade was for allowing RMC's to work properly with the 99
Too bad they dont care as much as Cliff does about their products.

 

[rickgk]

The only disadvantage is that using a GR or VG before the Axe will add a slight amount of noise. IMO, well worth the tradeoff for gaining sims of various pickups, guitar bodies, acoustics, dobro, sitar (Coral type), 12-strings, open tunings, synth tones, etc. Nothing weird about it. Roland's amp sims blow, which is why running their products into a Fractal makes perfect sense. The VG-99 also has USB audio in/out, which allows me to reamp with the Ultra much as I would if I had the Axe II. Too bad Roland's product support and maintenance are so pathetic.

I would love to hear some clips of you using the roland guitar sims through the axe-fx, highlighting the dynamics with dryish amp tones and altered tuning dynamics as well, anything you could be bothered doing really I'm just mainly interested in how the guitar modelling sounds with various styles of music.

 

[MaxTwang]

The VG-99 sounds appealing. Does it have a wider range of guitar models vs the GR-55?

The VG-99 has dual COSM modeling engines, while the GR-55 has only 1 - most of the COSM modeling is the same, but the VG-99 has 2 modeling paths. The GR-55 has 2 PCM synthesizers where the VG-99 doesn't do synthesis (it does do pitch to MIDI but you need an external synthesizer). I understand the VG-99 has deeper editing on some modeling functions than the GR-55. The interface on the VG-99 is easier to use.

I had a VG-99 and felt it was an either/or with the Axe, so I kept the Axe. But for the price the GR-55 is a nice addition to an Axe.

 

[dk_ace]

You guys had me wanting to try a VG-99 until I went to google it. Dear God that thing is expensive!

I think I'll pass, but the GR-55 looks interesting for the price. I may look into it a little more closely later on...

D

 

[or8ital]

You guys had me wanting to try a VG-99 until I went to google it. Dear God that thing is expensive!

I think I'll pass, but the GR-55 looks interesting for the price. I may look into it a little more closely later on...

D

I found a b stock of the 99 for 750. Let me know if you are interested and I will get you the details.

 

[damienmcgauley]

The picking and attack response all depend on how you've set up your GK-3 sensitivity. each Hex PU is set to 60% out of the box which is WAY too high. When I tweaked my sensitivity the average was 25% - 40% and the headroom and response to the picking technique drastically improved.
Hope this helps.

 

[damienmcgauley]

You can switch between different pickups of a particular model, or even switch which guitar model you are using, within the same patch using cc assigns. Many GR-55 users who would not ordinarily use cc control are doing so since the GR-55 has a 200 ms gap between patch changes.

I chose replacing my VG-88 with a VG-99 rather than the GR-55. I think the PCM tones are nice in theory, but I don't think I would use them much in practice. The VG-99 allows two simultaneous modeled guitar sections (more useful than I originally thought), 12-string altered tunings, steel-guitar pedal bends, and other nice features. The main problem with the VG-99 is that the nylon string guitar model has a serious bug that makes the top three strings drop out until they are played with significant force. So if you will rely on the nylon string model, avoid the VG-99.

I have a template patch with S1/S2 switches set up to change between pickups and I build most of my patches around that.

 

[or8ital]

So Im still waiting for my coupon but messed more with it tonight and the string dynamics do seem to be OK. I did turn down the sensitivity on all the strings some more. You guys werent kidding about the alt-tunings being fantastic on this. So much better than the pitch shifting on the AXE and of course much more flexible because you can set it by string. It feels this is going to be very complimentary to the AXE FX and fill in some gaps. Can't wait to try them together.

 

[steadystate]

You guys had me wanting to try a VG-99 until I went to google it. Dear God that thing is expensive!

I think I'll pass, but the GR-55 looks interesting for the price. I may look into it a little more closely later on...

D

I bought my VG-99 used (mint condition, about $1400 new) on Ebay, with the RAD-99 rack mount (also mint condition, about $200 new) for $814 including shipping. I'd swear both came straight from the factory. They even smelled new. Keep your eye out. If you are not into the PCM tones, but heavily into the guitar/pickup/altered tuning aspect, the VG is the way to go.

 

[dk_ace]

So Im still waiting for my coupon but messed more with it tonight and the string dynamics do seem to be OK. I did turn down the sensitivity on all the strings some more. You guys werent kidding about the alt-tunings being fantastic on this. So much better than the pitch shifting on the AXE and of course much more flexible because you can set it by string. It feels this is going to be very complimentary to the AXE FX and fill in some gaps. Can't wait to try them together.

I brought up the lousy sensitivity. As I've looked into this some more, I realized that the unit I had experience with was the VG-8, not the current kit. I'm sure the tech has greatly improved since then, so my thoughts on that issue are irrelevant. If you guys say the dynamics are better I believe you. Now I really want to check these out again...

D

 

[steadystate]

I brought up the lousy sensitivity. As I've looked into this some more, I realized that the unit I had experience with was the VG-8, not the current kit. I'm sure the tech has greatly improved since then, so my thoughts on that issue are irrelevant. If you guys say the dynamics are better I believe you. Now I really want to check these out again...

D

One of the nice features of the VG-99 (and I believe the GR-55) is that the GK settings (including sensitivity) can now be recalled on a global or per-patch basis, rather than just a global one. So if you want to use specific guitars for specific presets, you no longer have to change the GK system presets manually. The 99 lets you store 10 settings and assign any one of them to each patch.

This also lets you use different sensitivities for the same guitar for different presets.

 

[or8ital]

One of the nice features of the VG-99 (and I believe the GR-55) is that the GK settings (including sensitivity) can now be recalled on a global or per-patch basis, rather than just a global one. So if you want to use specific guitars for specific presets, you no longer have to change the GK system presets manually. The 99 lets you store 10 settings and assign any one of them to each patch.

This also lets you use different sensitivities for the same guitar for different presets.

On the GR-55 you can setup multiple guitars at the global level. At the patch level you can only set per string volume, not sensitivity.

 

[Tone Seeker]

I've tried the VG-99 a couple of times and interestingly, the synth sounds caught my attention. I liked how responsive they were to the nuances of my playing, as opposed to triggering a sample. I could see this as being very useful for lead work, either stand-alone or in combination with regular guitar tones

For synth sounds I prefer the GR33 and my GR300.

Can you elaborate on this, and where you find the VG-99 lacking?

Thanks.

Terry.

 

[rickgk]

Clips of the VG or GR in combo with the axe-fx anyone? Would love to hear the raw guitar modeling of the rolands along with the amp modelling of the axe-fx

 

[or8ital]

Clips of the VG or GR in combo with the axe-fx anyone? Would love to hear the raw guitar modeling of the rolands along with the amp modelling of the axe-fx

I should, hopefully, get my coupon next week so I may be able to post something in a couple of weeks.