Going back v4.01

In answer to this i would like to have complete working knowledge of all the parameters in the amp and cabinet blocks for any version and i would pay what ever for that.... Thats were the true power of this thing is ....with that knowledge i think one might be able to get any sound with just about any version ... but thats just my opinion...and thats is why i want that knowledge so badly im willing to stir up so much shit on this forum.... squeaky wheel gets the oil !!!!
While I absolutely respect your quest for knowledge (seriously I do, because its not often that anyone wants to learn more than the bare minumum is to do something these days) I think that you are are assuming a couple of things:

1. That there is someone out there that really knows how to explain every single parameter in a way that works for you.
2. That someone has all the answers (let alone answers for your specific needs and tastes).
3. That this someone has the time available to invest in an undertaking that large.
4. That when v5.05 comes out that half of it isn't thrown out the window.
5. That armed with this knowledge that you would no longer still have to experiment and tweak by ear to sound exactly how you want.

Any all-encompassing guide is going to be based on one person's knowledge, taste, and opinions. Just because someone writes a guide doesn't mean that it's the definitive way to do something either.

I don't know what to tell you, but from what I can tell, apart from sm, no one on here has shown an inclination to want to create such a guide. He said that he wanted to do it, but even he didn't accomplish it before he ran out of time. I write lesson plans and teach for a living and I can tell you right now that what you are asking for is not only an unreasonable request, but it's unrealiistic to expect it to be the solution to what ails you. If I was to speculate here as to where sm got all of his knowledge (because I didn't follow him that closely and only skimmed through his guide) most of it was gathered via personal hands on experience, a lot of research and a lot of trial and error.

You've got the internet, books, the gear, and the desire to learn (I am positive of this), you've got the manual and the wiki....everything that he had, you have as well except for the hands on and trial and error. Instead of asking him to do this for you, why don't you do it for yourself?

I'd love to do something like this. I just don't have the time and to be quite honest I don't concern myself with enough of the minutia that seems to be the standard measuring stick for gear these days. I just don't have the ability to get hung up on what I don't have and usually just take what I do have and do the best I can with it. I hear differences in the firmware and what I hear is something new to utilize. Most of what I do know is from a considerable amount of time 'dorking around' and what that afforded me was a general idea of what many of the parameters do. What it also did was confirm in my mind that no matter how many knobs are on something there is no magic button that is going to miraculously make it sound amazingly different if the general texture and tone isn't there and if it does there is usually something that it's being taken away from somewhere else.

I'm not going to bug you about this again, because I keep sounding like I'm telling you to quit whining or something as if what I said mattered to anyone and that isn't my intent and I definitely don't want you to ever stop asking for knowledge. What I'm trying to get across is that hanging onto this concept that sm had all the answers and that all is lost (because you put some reference to him in almost every post) is almost a defeatest attitude. You've got 70 amps, 50 cabs, tons of effects and the rest of your life to dial in all the patches that you could want....don't waste time waiting for someone to lead you, take the lead on it for yourself.

If I was you I'd start small with just an amp and cab and go with very small incremental changes and try to understand what the parameters do to the sound. Spend a week or two just messing with that amp with different cabs. Don't get obsessed with dialing in a specific tone, just try to absorb what you are hearing and feeling. I mean honestly, all the effects and stuff are great, but the core of any tone is coming from the amp and cab. Once you get that dialed in as well as you can then you can move on to EQ'ing it to get the final version of it and then you can start working on adding modulation and delays and stuff. I'm not saying that effects aren't important, but I don't think that they'll give you what you are looking for in terms of learning right now. I'd also recommend reading a lot about amps and get onto some of those sites that breakdown specific player's rigs. Only thing that I'd be weary of is to think that because so and so used a Plexi that you can only use a Plexi amp sim to get his tone. Half the time those guys are full of crap or speculating and the other half of the equation is that any recorded tone is going to be effected by a lot of offboard gear and mixing....heck, most of the time those amazing tones aren't even replicated by the artists that created them in the first place.

I suppose reasonable expectations is my point there.

As for the original topic here which was rolling back to v4 that's fine. I know plenty of people that were still on like v5 or 6 with the Ultra for years and just used it because it did what they wanted. That's the point I suppose because everyone is going to have different needs, styles and tastes. I will just say one small thing to think over about rolling back and sticking for a long time though. There is going to come a time in the future that you won't be able to use another person's patches and there will be something that is added or changed that you are going to really want and at that point you are going to have an even bigger task of getting familiar with the way that the unit works.

I'd just hate to see you get left behind because you're frustrated.
 
with that knowledge i think one might be able to get any sound with just about any version ... but thats just my opinion...
Indeed (for the latter part)...
I know some people have claimed this, but my bet is it's not true for "all amps ever." Even your rightfully revered smilefan, who IMO showed some serious ears to get closer to other amps this way, has been asking for other unique ODs and amps. That tells me something (even if he might understand the parameters less than Cliff).
 
Just a guess from me:

I remember the first digital modelers that were developed made everything sound hughe and nice. You could lay your d*ck on the fretboard and get a hughe nice tone. And you could not influence the results in any way, using your fingers instead of the d*ck do not change the tone much and so these early products were not accepted by the tubeampplayers. Sold a million times as toys that everyone could afford, for practising, homerecording and so on, but not for stage use. Usual complains: muddyness, rubberfeeling, zero dynamics and so on.

Tubeamps are the opposite of these frist modelers, you have to fight to nail a good tone on the fretboard. When you are able to play and know your amp, you can get good results, otherwise not. Plug and play only for good players with a good tone in their hands.

As the modelers now come more and more close to tubeamps, the players have to play better and better and have to know and have to finetune their presets better and better for best results. Also the quality of the used guitar is having more and more impact.
So the better cliff hits the reality of tubeamps, the less we can noodle mindless around exspecting a good tone. We have to invest time to stay on track. When we don't invest time in good patches, we don't get best results.
We can let some updates pass and return at a later point. So from time to time people will announce that they are not updating this time and wait for a later update. I guess there's nothing wrong with that, it's all normal.
Remember, it's not a plug-and-play toy where you just plug in and get a hughe nice tone, and I'm thankful that it isn't.

Just a wild guess.
 
I have been tweaking the @&^$%*@# out of this update & can't get rid of the booming, muddy, mucky low mids that permeate this update.

E are parametric eq and even null filters available, it seems like you have tried everything except the right tools for the job. I was able to dial out ALL low mids in a matter of seconds.

It's funny, when comparing to tube amps I felt the axe was always missing the sloppy low mid girth.

Now that the axe is even more accurate to the amps it models it seems like there are more complaints.

Real tube amps reproduce a ton of frequency that gets trimmed off live or in a mix. Tube amps are imperfect. The axe models tube amps AND their inherent shortcomings.
 
Actually, I have been using parametric EQ but now with 5.04b it's not an issue. I should have said I couldn't get rid of it without killing the tone. That is a very touchy frequency area. The thing is, I shouldn't have to put an EQ on every single patch to make it sound right so I didn't. Fractal listened, released 5.04b & it's a non issue for me now. Last week at rehearsal I had major low mid feedback issues, lack of clarity & both the bass player & drummer commented on how it was not as clear. Now with 5.04b, even with my Anderson hollow drop top, not feedback issues, great tone with virtually no tweaking, much better clarity as in 4.01 & much nicer feel! All is well now. Thanks again to all at Fractal. This is why it is good to speak up if things don't sound right to you. For me anyway, it's not about bitching without trying to re-tweak etc. It's about helping Fractal make an already great product better.
 
Have you tried the global EQ? I was having issues with low end feedback and general flubyness... I cut the low frequencies in the global EQ... This cut the feedback issue and allowed me to raise the volume to cut through better in the live environment.
 
I had those frequencies down in the Global EQ since v1 ( as well as the very hi end). I was able to re-set the Global EQ close to where it was with v4 & all is fine now. Every good engineer I have worked with has always said that if you have to EQ something to death, there is something wrong with the source sound. It was either recorded poorly or is the wrong sound for the part. That is the way I was feeling with v5. Just something not right about it so I waited it out rather than pulling my hair out & v5.04b fixed my issues.
 
I had those frequencies down in the Global EQ since v1 ( as well as the very hi end). I was able to re-set the Global EQ close to where it was with v4 & all is fine now. Every good engineer I have worked with has always said that if you have to EQ something to death, there is something wrong with the source sound. It was either recorded poorly or is the wrong sound for the part. That is the way I was feeling with v5. Just something not right about it so I waited it out rather than pulling my hair out & v5.04b fixed my issues.

If it sounds good. It is good. It doesn't matter how you get there. It depends on what you are trying to record. For example The Black Album rhythm guitars where recorded with up to 12 mics on the guitar cabs. Each was used to boost or cut certain frequencies like an EQ. Does that mean that Hetfield and Rock should have used a different amp or cab? No way. If your going for a more natural type sound you may end up not needing a ton of EQ. If you are going for a more in your face type sound you may require several bands of EQ adjustment even with the 'right' amp and cab combination.

I don't have a ton of professional recording experience but I have been quite obsessive about reading books on mixing. Most books I have read have interviews with famous mix engineers. One common thread between them all was that they would whatever it took to get 'the sound'. Turning any knob all the way around even if it was generally frowned upon for some reason. For the type of recorded heavy sounds that I am after it is rare for the chain to be just a guitar into an amp and cab. Lots of filtering can be required to get 'the sound'. We have every tool we could ever need at our disposal in the Axe II. All we have to do is be willing to use them even if it may seem unconventional.

The only rule is that there are no rules. If it sounds good. It IS good. The end does justify the means.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
What can I say. I'm old, almost 58 & grew up with a 24 track mind. That would have never happened back in the day. I think people do things now just because they can due to virtually unlimited tracks. I'm not familiar with the reference but is doesn't mean they couldn't have gotten as good or better sound with 1 mic. Logic tells me the closer you are to a great sound at the source, the better off you are Also, I think you are referring more to the actual recording process where you get the sound. I was referring more to the mix down, after the fact. I'm sure I wasn't clear but that is where I was coming from. YMMV
 
What can I say. I'm old, almost 58 & grew up with a 24 track mind. That would have never happened back in the day. I think people do things now just because they can due to virtually unlimited tracks. I'm not familiar with the reference but is doesn't mean they couldn't have gotten as good or better sound with 1 mic. Logic tells me the closer you are to a great sound at the source, the better off you are Also, I think you are referring more to the actual recording process where you get the sound. I was referring more to the mix down, after the fact. I'm sure I wasn't clear but that is where I was coming from. YMMV

Touché. I can agree to that.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
Rather than using filters and PEQ, another thing you can try is adjusting the low speaker resonance. If it's too flubby down low you can try reducing or even completely dumping the low resonance peak (like, down to 0). Again, stuff we can do in the digital realm that's simply not possible with a real amp.
 
Back
Top Bottom