Global EQ

nic72

Member
Hi everyone,

I'm running my AXE III into a Zilla cab loaded with 2 creambacks powered by a Matrix GT 1000FX. When I turn up to gig/practice levels I'm having to tame the high frequencies quite dramatically with the global eq. I use the bandmaster amp model for most of my presets with just the bass dialed back a bit. I was wondering if this is normal? Power amp modeling is on. Thank you 20220830_130141.jpg20220830_130055.jpg
 
I'd say that is pretty normal. It is likely the effect of the Fletcher-Monson curve.

  • At low listening volumes – mid range frequencies sound more prominent, while the low and high frequency ranges seem to fall into the background.
  • At high listening volumes – the lows and highs sound more prominent, while the mid range seems comparatively softer.
Thanks OZ. There's definitely a bit of Fletcher Munson going on but I just wondered if my eq settings looked extreme and if was doing something wrong. I've moved from frfr to real cab and was expecting the speakers to filter out the top end more
 
Is this during rehearsal or just when your sitting alone and want to be sure your higher volumes sound as lower ones. As guitarist it's easy to not hear certain frequencies as well, as when the bass player snare drum bass drum and cymbals are definitely going to influence your hearing on some of those frequencies. I've noticed with frfr I like it at woodshed vs rehearsal ,the sounds were not as enjoyable. With a matrix they were more enjoyable with the band ,however I could definitely hear and tell I was using SS power, high end wasn't shrill but more present, mids were less dominant. With a PS-2 I hear more punch , more highs and it seems as almost a mild scooped mid sound. I have not tweaked this at band volumes as I'm rehearsing not tweaking. So getting the right abilities into the performance page on the axe3 is a must and can definitely make a difference, somewhat. It's so endless and that's a curse in some cases lol. However the ability is there more so than anything else available. Cheers
 
Is this during rehearsal or just when your sitting alone and want to be sure your higher volumes sound as lower ones. As guitarist it's easy to not hear certain frequencies as well, as when the bass player snare drum bass drum and cymbals are definitely going to influence your hearing on some of those frequencies. I've noticed with frfr I like it at woodshed vs rehearsal ,the sounds were not as enjoyable. With a matrix they were more enjoyable with the band ,however I could definitely hear and tell I was using SS power, high end wasn't shrill but more present, mids were less dominant. With a PS-2 I hear more punch , more highs and it seems as almost a mild scooped mid sound. I have not tweaked this at band volumes as I'm rehearsing not tweaking. So getting the right abilities into the performance page on the axe3 is a must and can definitely make a difference, somewhat. It's so endless and that's a curse in some cases lol. However the ability is there more so than anything else available. Cheers
Thanks for the input 316ms. It's the same whether the band are playing with me or not. Don't get me wrong, it sounds good with highs heavily attenuated but I'm just wondering if others are having to do the same and if I'd have the same issue with a real stack?
 
Thanks for the input 316ms. It's the same whether the band are playing with me or not. Don't get me wrong, it sounds good with highs heavily attenuated but I'm just wondering if others are having to do the same and if I'd have the same issue with a real stack?
I didnt remember cuttings highs so much as needing to maybe do some high and low cuts as mentioned. I'm sure you have cab modeling off, as mentioned putting in an EQ can make dialing in and out undesirable frequencies. If the highs are not ice picky maybe you need another mix in the mids.
 
I'm just wondering if others are having to do the same and if I'd have the same issue with a real stack?

Yes, you have to adjust, whether it is a “real” rig or modeled. The issue is that our brain doesn’t perceive frequencies the same at low volume as it does at high volume. That’s exactly what Fletcher and Munson studied, what their experiments proved, and why it’s important to understand it.

With an amplifier with knobs, we’d twiddle them and adjust them until they sounded how we liked. We might move the cabinet to a better position also. When in a room where we turn it up we’d adjust again. Eventually, we know our rig sounds great at stage volume and get tired of constantly adjusting for bedroom volume, and leave it alone. If FOH gets a signal then they’re responsible for EQing it.

The modeler has no way of knowing where it’s being used, so you get to adjust it for the room, but doing so can be frustrating because it’s so much more flexible than the amp, and with multiple places available to adjust EQ it can be daunting… adjust the amp tone? Adjust the cab? Adjust the FRFRs? What about the FOH send?

I initially adjust my basic In->Amp->Cab->Out preset EQ with headphones using a compensating GEQ or PEQ block just ahead of the Out block at 90-ish dB, then remove the block and save the preset, then begin adding effects. If I ever want to adjust the EQ again, I can reinsert then remove the block after adjusting, or I can translate a minor change in my head, and save it again. My FRFR cabs are set to be neutral, so I know that the modeler will output the signal I told it to, the cabs will do their thing, and I just need to have the volume at 90-ish dB and it’ll sound good.

Some rooms sound different than others, as do positions in the room. I can easily scoop my FRFR cabs or flatten them with a quick change to their amp, or I can adjust their positions. The other night I was on a different spot on a stage than I used before and was getting too many lows. Using the global EQ in the modeler I rolled off the lows until they were in the ballpark, then finished the first set and thought about it as I played. I realized that the FRFR was the smarter place to adjust, changed the switch to scoop it, reset the global curve, and the overall rig sounded great the rest of the night.

This is experience, some of it is studying, then combining the two.
 
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Totally normal, this is what the global EQ was designed to do. I always tweaked it depending on which room I was playing in.

If you're always going back to a certain place (like your practice space) or venue and you have an EQ curve you like, put a GEQ/PEQ in your preset that's dialed to that room and turn it on when you get there, bypass it when you're elsewhere. Use the ABCD channels to your advantage as well.
 
In my opinion, that Eq looks quite extreme - Cutting 20db as low as 3K is not normal as fas as I'm concerned 🤔 - You should try playing around with a Filter block with a hi-cut setting in your preset, just before your output to the Matrix. Could be as low as 5k, but I think you will probably get a more realistic amp experience that way. Often the filtering of the high-frequencies takes place in the power-amp section of the (tube-)amp, more so than in the speakers. Obviously this wont happen with the Matrix, as it is intended to be FRFR.
 
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Often the filtering of the high-frequencies takes place in the power-amp section of the (tube-)amp, more so than in the speakers.
But Fractal models the tube power section of the amp, so no extra compensation should really be required...

Best to dial in live presets at live sound levels is possible.
 
I usually run a ParaEQ in all my patches and cut everything below 90hz and everything above 6500hz
I use the preamp section of the cab block, but am doing almost the same thing. I am cutting everything below 80hz on cleaner sounds or 140hz on higher gain sounds, and everything above 6500hz on pretty much all sounds. Letting anything above 6500hz usually forces me to turn the tone control on the bridge pickup down by maybe half or deal with nails on the chalk board highs.
 
Hi everyone,

I'm running my AXE III into a Zilla cab loaded with 2 creambacks powered by a Matrix GT 1000FX. When I turn up to gig/practice levels I'm having to tame the high frequencies quite dramatically with the global eq. I use the bandmaster amp model for most of my presets with just the bass dialed back a bit. I was wondering if this is normal? Power amp modeling is on. Thank you View attachment 107473View attachment 107474
-20db from 3k and above? With a 2x12 standing on the floor, which should eleminate some presence and boost some low mids by it's own?

Seems all wrong to me.

I'd expect the sound to be midrangey and fat right from the start. So it's expect some bass cut and maybe sone presence boost in the eq. Now that's the opposite.

You usually played tube amps with 2x12's and you know what it should sound like?
 
I agree with dialing them in at 90 DB, with the caveat being that I try doing that in a larger room. My studio is small compared to the stages we play on. FOH should be done independently from your stage FRFR. I try to use two outputs on my presets, one FOH and the other my monitor. FWIW
 
Maybe I missed it, I don't see it mentioned if you're using a cab block. I run a GT1000 into a couple EVM-12L's with no cab block and just have to cut maybe a little of the mids.
 
Hi everyone and thanks for all the input. To answer some of the questions, I have a separate feed out to front of house via output 2 with a cab sim on it. Output 1 is to the matrix with no cab sim. Nothing funky going on with my amp model settings - it's mainly a bandmaster with the bass turned down a bit
 
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