Gig level and tweaking at home

D

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Inspired
Hi everyone!
As probably most people, I see that one of a big advantage with the axe is to build your presets / your sounds at home and store them for live use for example. In conjunction with that, I often heard people saying: "you need to configure your sounds at gig level not at bedroom level otherwise it won't sound "good" or the sound will change when playing live.".
So, what is a gig level? I don't have a 500 people PA system at home or if I would have one, I wouldn't have the opportunity to crank this things up, as it would be one on a show in a club or hall or wherever.
While rehearsing or playing live, I go direct to the PA and for monitoring I'm using IEM. So, no cab on stage.
At home I have a pair of Adam A3X nearfield monitors and a AKG whatever studio headphone.
How do you guys manage to get your tone for live use right with using the same set up as I have at home? What do you pay attention at?
Do I need to raise up my near field speakers until they fall to pieces to get as close as I can to that 'gig level'?
Do I need to have an other monitoring system, if I want to tweak my sounds properly at home?
 
I read this as "twerking at home". I need to get off the internet for a bit.

Anyway, when I was FOH only, I booked out 2 hours at my local rehearsal studio for myself and dialled in my live presets there through their PA. I wouldn't dial in live presets on studio monitors or through headphones. I'm now running power amp+cab and just micing that up with a couple of mics. Simpler = better (for me)
 
Tweaking at gig level means, when you tweak your sounds at home at bedroom level, you have to fine tune them again at the rehearselroom or if you don't have one at the soundcheck on your next gig, because the "!highs" and the "lowes" sound different when you play loud at a gig. If you happy with your bedroom sounds at a loud playing level, then is it also ok! Where in Germany are you from?
 
Lookup Fletcher Munson curve, been discussed ad nauseam...

I get a patch I like at bedroom volume, then i turn it up like i would be sitting with a loud drummer on stage, and then tweak accordingly. For me this means the highs are not as pronounced at low volumes, sounds a little dark, but when you get it up loud they come back.
 
After a while you learn instinctively what will work in a live environment. I used to get it terribly wrong, especially with clean presets, but these days when I set one up, it's usually in the ballpark already, just a few minor adjustments. The main lesson for me was if it sounds pretty, it will probably fall off the front of the stage. Make it uglier, nastier, more aggressive for live use.
 
I'll play along with backing tunes, at or near gig level. I'll set the overall background level by using a dB meter. Then while the same reference song is playing in the background, I go through each preset, to see where it puts me on the meter, and how it cuts through. How does the eq mix with the backing track? Are the highs harsh or the lows flubby?

These sort of things get me close - there's still some tweaking to be done at actual stage volumes, but it's much more in the ballpark.
 
Here are a few things that change for a guitarist regarding practice at home versus an actual gig:

- Mids, which sound like too much at home, actually bring your sound out front more when playing with a band.
- Depending on your amp/speakers, you can get harsh tone that really wasn't apparent at low volumes. Additionally, you can get a "boomy" sound because you have too much low end.
- Obviously volume will be something you struggle with because everyone knows that a drummer makes way too much noise. :)

One thing I read here on the forum years ago is that some folks will simply drop their bass and treble and boost the mids in the Global EQ for the gig and seems to be a perfect solution and quick tone adjustment. Not sure if it works that easy but seems like it would.
 
Black Bitch said:
Tweaking at gig level means, when you tweak your sounds at home at bedroom level, you have to fine tune them again at the rehearselroom or if you don't have one at the soundcheck on your next gig, because the "!highs" and the "lowes" sound different when you play loud at a gig. If you happy with your bedroom sounds at a loud playing level, then is it also ok! Where in Germany are you from?
Click to expand...

Close to Belgium. One hour from Cologne :)
 
dpeterson said:
Lookup Fletcher Munson curve, been discussed ad nauseam...

I get a patch I like at bedroom volume, then i turn it up like i would be sitting with a loud drummer on stage, and then tweak accordingly. For me this means the highs are not as pronounced at low volumes, sounds a little dark, but when you get it up loud they come back.
Click to expand...

Ok. Loud Drummer = gig level. Makes sense. Good approach.
 
For me, the "gig level" thing doesn't mean much. I create patches at living room listening levels and have never had a problem. The difference in response between the various PAs I play through at gigs and my studio monitors at home is far greater than the difference in the perceived response from my studio monitors at low and high volume levels. Having other patches to use as reference also makes this a non-issue for me. The only thing gig level patch creation would do for me is needlessly damage my hearing.
 
Great question. I use monitors and have pa speakers. My settings don't really change. The only thing I really chAnge is the mic spacing in the cab sim
 
Years ago (yes quite a few) when line6 equipment first came out what I did and a lot of guys on the forums back then did was set up an EQ that resembles the fletcher Munson curve (I don't remember any settings at all now but the theory is still good regardless of the eq used). You turn this eq on at bedroom level and set your patches up until they sound good. Then when you turn the volume up you turn this eq off. It actually translated really well. What was interesting was when dialling in a patch with this eq on at low volume if you turned it off the tone was quite a bit different. In some cases it sounded like crap at low volume. It got you fairly close without having to set the whole thing up at gig level. After that it just took minor tweaks for the environment. I wish I had kept all that information but I don't gig out any more anyway.
 
romanianreaper said:
One thing I read here on the forum years ago is that some folks will simply drop their bass and treble and boost the mids in the Global EQ for the gig and seems to be a perfect solution and quick tone adjustment. Not sure if it works that easy but seems like it would.
Click to expand...

I used to do this a lot and it works for the most part but there are the other variables you have to think about when doing this.
 
I am a glutton for punishment: I now have approx. 250 unique presets to cover specific tones and effects for specific cover songs. I tried all the previous mentioned methods but none of them work for a number of reasons, so here is what finally got me there;

I bought an Behringer X32 Producer, and multitrack recorded my band while rehearsing.

You have to realize that playing to commercial backing tracks won't work because they have been mixed for the tracks to sit with each other and mastered to further polish. This not only gives you a false representation of how your guitar will sit with your bands mix, it also doesn't take into account the dynamic differences from song to song, and as such is the base reason you can't simply use a single tone if you are doing covers and want it to sound anything other than boring.

Now I took those mutitracks and downmixed them into my own guitarless backing tracks being careful to only set the levels initially, so that way, when the drummer or bass player plays harder or lighter it is reflected on the recording. This allowed me to set each preset and scene accordingly. You'd be surprised as well how dynamic your vocalist is on some songs and having your scenes set up to account for this makes needing a sound engineer a non issue.

2nd, and more important, the reason you tweak at gig volume is because it gives you the true response of all frequencies as they will be conveyed to the audience, AND how you will sit in the mix with your band. For Example, nothing is worse than a bass heavy preset that sounds great at -18db then when you crank it up to -3db it causes the poweramp to clip, or eats into the Bass players / kick drum zone and causes a muddy mix.... and that's just touching the basic reasoning.

3rd and the hardest, is to try and tweak on the system you will be gigging with....... yes I know most of us are at the mercy of the venue's, but as a weekend warrior these days, I had to take it into my own hands as our band does have a complete digital board and 20,000 watt PA and complete FoH, however no one wants to pack it because they all are happy with the shitty mono house PA's and monitors provided at most venues, and lets face it, playing weekend bar gigs doesn't pay enough nor is is big enough to require a 20,000 watt PA system.

So like I said I took it in to my own hands. I had a Behringer EPQ2000 power amp, and two Peavey 215 700watt FoH speakers sitting around and decided to put them to use. (Total cost to buy is about a $1000 including the speaker cables). I basically brought my own PA just for guitar. Yes..... I had to retune all my presets to this system, but once completed and following my leveling method, dare I say my levels and mix with respect to my band is flawless.
 
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Sixstring said:
I used to do this a lot and it works for the most part but there are the other variables you have to think about when doing this.
Click to expand...
Yeap but if you go KISS when starting out, this really helps a lot. Then, you can start fine tuning everything else with more tips once you reach an acceptable level with your patches.
 
deleted said:
Hi everyone!
As probably most people, I see that one of a big advantage with the axe is to build your presets / your sounds at home and store them for live use for example. In conjunction with that, I often heard people saying: "you need to configure your sounds at gig level not at bedroom level otherwise it won't sound "good" or the sound will change when playing live.".
So, what is a gig level? I don't have a 500 people PA system at home or if I would have one, I wouldn't have the opportunity to crank this things up, as it would be one on a show in a club or hall or wherever.
While rehearsing or playing live, I go direct to the PA and for monitoring I'm using IEM. So, no cab on stage.
At home I have a pair of Adam A3X nearfield monitors and a AKG whatever studio headphone.
How do you guys manage to get your tone for live use right with using the same set up as I have at home? What do you pay attention at?
Do I need to raise up my near field speakers until they fall to pieces to get as close as I can to that 'gig level'?
Do I need to have an other monitoring system, if I want to tweak my sounds properly at home?
Click to expand...

Don't need a full PA to get gig levels. Just refers to volume you play at on stage. The actual level you'll use with full band. PA takes that and amplifies for room.
You'll find at low volumes, bass that you found full and tight is way to much at higher volume. Gain, mids, treble, all effected by Fletcher Munson curve.
Good news is, you get to turn up more at home!
Also, as mentioned, renting rehearsal space with full PA and tweaking with band is a great way too. You can sit FOH and dial in.


Sent from my iPhone
 
Severed said:
So like I said I took it in to my own hands. I had a Behringer EPQ2000 power amp, and two Peavey 215 700watt FoH speakers sitting around and decided to put them to use. (Total cost to buy is about a $1000 including the speaker cables). I basically brought my own PA just for guitar. Yes..... I had to retune all my presets to this system, but once completed and following my leveling method, dare I say my levels and mix with respect to my band is flawless.
Click to expand...
Accidentally had the same solution using a Yamaha 400W simple PA amp and two 300W cheap satellites. In the attic, from time to time if I think it might not fit, I'll push up the level and way you go. Works flawless. Just need to cut from time to time as after 15-20 minutes your ears adapt to the sound and you'll have to relisten after a break to be sure all still goes well.
 
So, does this mean that using IEM makes your live presets sound like $h¿t, since you're listening at low volume?
 
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