Gibson Petition

Gibson should have gone "Green"..making guitars out of recycled materials.

I would say the people claiming "save a tree" because of forrest products could not be further from the truth in a lot of areas. For example. Paper is primarily made from wood that comes from tree farms, not forests. Those making paper plant the most trees, they certainly don't want there to be a shortage of trees. On the flip side, how many of these folks that say "save a tree" in their emails turn off their PC at night?
 
Reminds me of the times when people thought the earth was flat.
Lots of evidence and facts. What's missing is the will to believe, to act and to change aspects of our life style. Ignorance..... These are important times. Should have nothing to do with politics.
 
Once you take the "religious zealotry" out of the global warming movement, all you have left is the scientific data and various theories. Believe it or not, there are actually scientists and climate professionals who don't have an axe to grind one way or the other, but really only care about the purity of the data collected and the quality of the proof of scientific theory. Peer review is an extremely important part of the process. The fact is that many of these people are not convinced that man's contribution to "climate change" is significant enough to claim "the sky is falling". Perhaps you remember the embarrassing "climategate" scandal at East Anglia University. Talk about an inconvenient truth...
 
I am amazed to read such use of the English vocabulary and the astuteness amongst guitarist in this thread.
I can see why Fractal Audio products are so attractive to this audience. Many here are very intelligent and highly technical in nature.
We all could probably agree the Axe~FX is not well suited for the intellectually challenged.
On a side bar, I enjoy observing the political leanings of post that indicate liberal and conservative viewpoints.
Either way, this goes to show guitarist responding to this thread are "thinking" individuals.
 
yek said:
Reminds me of the times when people thought the earth was flat.
Lots of evidence and facts. What's missing is the will to believe, to act and to change aspects of our life style. Ignorance..... These are important times. Should have nothing to do with politics.

So what do you suggest change that hadn't already and what outcome are you expecting to see by that change regarding climate change? The primary cause of ozone depletion was already addressed and the atmosphere is already improving. Unfortunately we are just now dealing with things that happened decades ago.
 
Going back to Gibson, it is interesting to note the groups who have been most vocal in criticizing Gibson's practices.

Industry criticism: There has been an effort by conservation and timber industry groups to counter Gibson’s and some politicians’ criticism of the Lacey Act and to call attention to what they see as the critical twin issues of environmental conservation and shielding American timber interests from being undercut by cheap and illegally harvested wood imports. The groups — among them the National Hardwood Lumber Association, United Steelworkers, Environmental Investigation Agency and longtime guitar maker Taylor Guitars — are “launching a new effort to push back and reveal the truth about the Lacey Act and the impact of illegal logging on American jobs and endangered forests,” they said in a statement.

If I remember correctly, the steelworkers were the union at Gibson before the move from Michigan to Tenn. Coincidence?
I also think I saw reference to the same broker supplying wood to several US instrument makers, including Martin, but then only Gibson has supported Republicans for election, while CF Martin has been a contributor to the Dems.
 
So what do you suggest change that hadn't already and what outcome are you expecting to see by that change regarding climate change? The primary cause of ozone depletion was already addressed and the atmosphere is already improving. Unfortunately we are just now dealing with things that happened decades ago.
Based on this and your prior posts that I have read, the inference is that you do not believe any of the Global Warming crowd, and that going "green" is just another American imperialist approach to commercial gain and huge profits. I don't know where you are getting your data, but no, the ozone depletion is NOT fixed, and the atmosphere is not "improving". Sure we are dealing with things that happened decades ago. That's exactly the problem.. it takes decades for this stuff to show up! burying your head in the sand and saying its not my problem, is helping no-one.

Guess the "primary cause of ozone depletion was already addressed" is why they recently found another major ozone hole over the pole eh? :roll
Russia’s North faces danger from the Arctic ozone hole
‘Unprecedented’ ozone hole opens over Canadian Arctic
 
Based on this and your prior posts that I have read, the inference is that you do not believe any of the Global Warming crowd, and that going "green" is just another American imperialist approach to commercial gain and huge profits. I don't know where you are getting your data, but no, the ozone depletion is NOT fixed, and the atmosphere is not "improving". Sure we are dealing with things that happened decades ago. That's exactly the problem.. it takes decades for this stuff to show up! burying your head in the sand and saying its not my problem, is helping no-one.

Guess the "primary cause of ozone depletion was already addressed" is why they recently found another major ozone hole over the pole eh? :roll
Russia’s North faces danger from the Arctic ozone hole


‘Unprecedented’ ozone hole opens over Canadian Arctic

"going "green" is just another American imperialist approach to commercial gain and huge profits"

-- Please show me where I posted that. Please.

"the ozone depletion is NOT fixed"

-- Please show me where I posted that it was. Please.

If you read the news articles about the recent ozone change you will see:

"While the extent of the ozone depletion is considered temporary, and well below the depletion that occurs seasonally over the Antarctic, atmospheric scientists described it as a striking example of how sudden anomalies can occur as a result of human activity that occurred years ago"

"Emissions of chlorinated fluorocarbons, or CFCs, once found in aerosol sprays, and other ozone-depleting substances like the soil fumigant methyl bromide produced the first ozone hole over the Antarctic, which was identified in 1985. Emissions of those compounds were banned under the Montreal Protocol, which has been signed by 191 countries.

Since 2000, concentrations in the atmosphere have been declining"

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/04/science/earth/04ozone.html

Again, I've not seen any of your evidence. So please share it. What exactly do you want to change and what effect will it have?
 
Last edited:
So what do you suggest change that hadn't already and what outcome are you expecting to see by that change regarding climate change? The primary cause of ozone depletion was already addressed and the atmosphere is already improving. Unfortunately we are just now dealing with things that happened decades ago.

Nope, climate change isn't the only issue here. For example, chemical substances (non-natural) in the air are increasing. Some of it poisonous. Only part of it has been thoroughly investigated. We don't even know what the combination of those substances can cause. What we do know is that the percentage of people with asthma, allergies etc. is increasing a lot.
 
Nope, climate change isn't the only issue here. For example, chemical substances (non-natural) in the air are increasing. Some of it poisonous. Only part of it has been thoroughly investigated. We don't even know what the combination of those substances can cause. What we do know is that the percentage of people with asthma, allergies etc. is increasing a lot.

So what do you want to change and what effect are you anticipating seeing? Its a simple question. If you haven't established a cause and effect people can't do anything. I'm all for further research on the subject. I just don't think we should act on anything until its understood.
 
What I find interesting about the man-made global "climate change" movement is that it is MUCH MORE LIKELY that our collective way of life would be more seriously impacted by:

- earthquake
- volcano (and volcanic ash)
- tsunami
- disease epidemic
- war/ social upheaval (see Arab Spring)
- sun spots
- asteriod hitting earth

etc.

The environmentalist movement doesn't fret over this stuff b/c it knows there is NOTHING IT CAN DO about it, even though it is infinitely more likely that one of the above will actually happen. Go ahead - outlaw tornadoes, hurricanes, earthquakes, ugly people, smelly farts. Good luck. Instead, as a political = power movement, it knows that there are great treasures awaiting if it can scare the crap out of everybody by convincing them that WE are to blame of all of this mess, and WE can change our behavior to make things right - in fact, we must be FORCED to change! This is wrong, and I personally won't stand for it.

Perhaps it is an inherently American way of being, as our country was founded on the idea that large, centralized government entities are NOT TO BE TRUSTED, and represent the biggest threat to individual freedom that can exist. The tenor of the global "climate change" movement is unfortunately so militant that it demonstrates exactly what our founding principles were trying to warn us against. Thus the skepticism.

Gibson is getting hosed.
 
Hey Jimfist,
I'm going to vote for you as a write in. Your last post really resonated with me. You get it. I appreciate your viewpoint. You are able to articulate my views in a way in which I can't put on paper.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
 
xlb3x, Thanks for the kind words. As you can tell, I've spent a lot of time thinking about this kind of stuff. As for Gibson, it would be nice if charges were brought against them, if for no other reason than to shed some light on the facts. They're in a no win situation since this will cost them one way or another even if they are innocent and charges are dropped. If they are found in a court of law to be guilty, then so be it. On the surface, it just seems like the Feds have been heavy-handed in this case IMO.
 
Hey Jimfist,
I'm going to vote for you as a write in. Your last post really resonated with me. You get it. I appreciate your viewpoint. You are able to articulate my views in a way in which I can't put on paper.
+1000
Jimfist for Prez!! :lol
 
as our country was founded on the idea that large, centralized government entities are NOT TO BE TRUSTED, and represent the biggest threat to individual freedom that can exist. The tenor of the global "climate change" movement is unfortunately so militant that it demonstrates exactly what our founding principles were trying to warn us against.

Uh, talking about founding.... the original population - indians - are known for treating nature (a divine entity to them) with utmost respect...

Too bad that the posts above prove again that environmental awareness is drawn into political statements. There's no need.
 
Yes these are the same indians that would scalp and behead their enemies. The indigenous people of north america were no different than the Europeans. Today it is the liberals who enslave them with all of their social welfare. Many indian reservations are worse than inner city slums. A direct result of having billions of dollars given to them. The premise that so called "green" advocates are better than anyone else is a farce. Most people that hunt and fish are way more ecologically responsible than the green Nazis. Liberalism =loss of freedom and economic policy that will put us back into the stone age. Such as the policies that are attempting to destroy Gibson. As George Carlin said " The earth will shake us off its back like a bad case of fleas". Its a little pompous of us to think we will destroy this planet that has been around for a few billion years. My advice to all the worry warts is to take a deep breath, have a beer and stop worrying about about all this. Live your life and be happy.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
 
with all due respect, yek, are we going to turn this into a history lesson on the founding of America and the value system of the indigenous Indians?

You also continue to infer that your assertions carry no "political" baggage with them. Well, I think they do. However, I do agree with you 100% that people should not be wasteful and unnecessarily destructive, and be good stewards of their surroundings. On that we can agree. But this discussion about Gibson/Lacey Act does have a strong political component.

I would also like you to support your implication that the Europeans who settled in the Americas in 1600-1800 had a wanton disregard for the environment. Most of these settlers were farmers, import/export merchants, and religious freedom-seekers. I don't think these people had the ability to seriously negatively impact the world environment even if they tried. You'd have to look to the Industrial Revolution for the kind of massive output that would impact the environment. That was just a bit later than 1776 (or at the very least, the infancy of Industry in the USA). Certainly the early settlers had a different value system than the native Indians, but this alone does not necessarily make them environmental scoundrels. Whether you like or dislike the events that led to the development and founding of the USA, that is hardly pertinent to this discussion at hand.

I don't believe we need to unravel the entire history of the world to engage in a pertinent discussion as to whether the Lacey Act is really protecting trees, or whether it is being used to harass Gibson. A speedy trial would be in order so that Gibson and the FBI can state their respective cases and get this over with.
 
Back
Top Bottom